| CC and Rs | <– Date –> <– Thread –> |
From: Joani Blank (jeblank hooked.net)
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| Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 02:36:01 -0600 | |
A word of advice about CC and Rs: Make them look as much as possible like the CC and Rs of a conventional condo complex. Put most or all the cohousing-is stuff into your house rules or whatever agreements you have for operating together. Much easier to change when the need or wish arises, and anyway who wants or needs to alert the Department of Real Estate that we are not practicing "housing as usual" here. Joani At 10:17 PM 3/25/97 -0600, you wrote: > COHOUSING-L Digest 107 > >Topics covered in this issue include: > > 1) Re: COHOUSING-L digest 106 > by MartyR707 [at] aol.com > 2) Re:Homeowners' Association Dues > by Joani Blank <jeblank [at] hooked.net> > 3) Next Great North American CoHousing Conference > by Joani Blank <jeblank [at] hooked.net> > 4) CC&Rs; radiant heat; MSV/MGC conference call > by Tom Nelson Scott <veda [at] csd.uwm.edu> > 5) Spring is springing up all over > by MelaSilva [at] aol.com > 6) RE: Cohousing-L tailing off > by "Rob Sandelin" <Floriferous [at] msn.com> > 7) Re:Homeowners' Association Dues > by abarbaro [at] wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us (Ann Barbarow) > 8) re:Homeowners' Association Dues > by Judy <BAXTER [at] epivax.epi.umn.edu> > 9) good things to come > by Judy <BAXTER [at] epivax.epi.umn.edu> > 10) Eno Commons: Construction Ho! (fwd) > by Cohousing-L listmgr <fholson [at] MTN.ORG> > 11) Re: Homeowners' Association Dues > by MelaSilva [at] aol.com > 12) Re: Cohousing-L tailing off > by "Fred H. Olson" <fholson [at] maroon.tc.umn.edu> > 13) Fwd: Next Great North American CoHousing Conference > by MicalCedar [at] aol.com > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 01:27:39 -0500 (EST) >From: MartyR707 [at] aol.com >To: cohousing-l [at] freedom.mtn.org, LouHarr [at] aol.com, MaryRu [at] >aol.com, >Subject: Re: COHOUSING-L digest 106 >Message-ID: <970325012738_281334167 [at] emout05.mail.aol.com> > > >In a message dated 3/24/97 9:24:42 PM, Brian Sullivan wrote: > ><<Finally, a plug for a third area of topics. I'd like to second others >suggestion to write down some stories of the good life in cohousing. Tell >us who don't live there yet what it's like once you're in. We hear so much >about meetings and busy schedules, will some lurkers get scared off? So >in theory we hear about dinners and community sharing, etc. Did you get >what you were hoping for? I believe these stories will do much for building >people's confidence and interest in cohousing.>> > >Yes!!! Please!! Thank you Brian for that suggestion. Boy, are we at the >point where we need good stories right now. I try to remind myself to >visualize living in our beautiful community a year from now, but it is really >hard in the midst of all this work!! (and fear and anxiety and difficult >decison making, etc.) > >The little practice activities we do (like Dave and Mary coming over to help >me lift my computer printer that I couldn't get out of my car, and Scott >bringing me lilacs from his back yard cuz he knows I love lilacs), help >remind us of more good things to come, but stories from those who are living >"in it" would be great! > >Marty Roberts >Two Acre Wood, Sebastopol >Where we're close to finalizing the CC&R's, and have some nice rituals >planned for our groundbreaking celebration in May. (And it looks pretty good >that we'll get concrete floors and radiant heat!!) > > > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 02:28:55 -0800 >From: Joani Blank <jeblank [at] hooked.net> >To: cohousing-l [at] freedom.mtn.org >Subject: Re:Homeowners' Association Dues >Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970325021520.006c4c68 [at] mail.hooked.net> > >>how to allocate the HOA dues that we will need >>to start collecting once we move in. Various schemes suggest themselves: >>divided equally by the number of units, by the square footage of each >>unit, by the number of people in each household, and various combinations >>of the above. >> >Denise, > >I asked about that when I moved into Doyle Street. I even thought maybe the >allocation could take "ability to pay" into consideration as well as the >other factors you mentioned. However I was informed that by law--regulation >of the Department of Real Estate perhaps? --it has to be allocated by >square foot, at least here in California. There are obviously ways around >this, I think. You can have a small or medium sized regular monthly >assessment that is calcuated by square foot, and then have frequent >"special" assessments that you allocate any way you want, perhaps by the >color of one's house, or the kind of music s/he likes (smile). I don't >know how kosher this is, or even If I was given correct information. but >my guess is that if you did special assessments with some regularity it >would be obvious that you were trying to an end run around a regulation and > you might get in trouble. > >I, for one, like your new name. Was it contentious? Deciding on a name, I >mean. The Berkeley group is struggling with that one right now. > >Joani >Doyle St. and Old Oakland, Californaiyeh > > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 02:28:58 -0800 >From: Joani Blank <jeblank [at] hooked.net> >To: cohousing-l [at] freedom.mtn.org >Subject: Next Great North American CoHousing Conference >Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970325022449.00691fd0 [at] mail.hooked.net> > >I've heard rumors that the conference has been scheduled for late in >September or the very beginning of October. Perhaps my CoHousing Journal >would tell me but my reading pile is very backed up (darned email!). Marci, >will you please tell us when we should head for Seattle (exact dates, that >is). And remember to ask us for help when you figure out what you need in >the way of assistance. Even if you ask, you might not get the help, but I >can guarantee you won't get it if you don't ask. <smile> > >Joani Blank >Doyle St. Cohousing and Old Oakland (Swan's Market) > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 05:06:42 -0600 (CST) >From: Tom Nelson Scott <veda [at] csd.uwm.edu> >To: cohousing-l [at] freedom.mtn.org >Cc: reception [at] mgc-vastu.com >Subject: CC&Rs; radiant heat; MSV/MGC conference call >Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91.970325044353.27898A-100000 [at] alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> > >On Tue, 25 Mar 1997 MartyR707 [at] aol.com wrote: > >> Two Acre Wood, Sebastopol >> Where we're close to finalizing the CC&R's, and have some nice rituals >> planned for our groundbreaking celebration in May. (And it looks pretty good >> that we'll get concrete floors and radiant heat!!) > >1. CC&Rs: I'm looking around for a website or some other > source where cohousing CC&Rs are posted. Any suggestions? > >2. Concrete floors and radiant heat: Sounds great to me. I've been > inundated with messages from three green construction lists > (greenbuilding, strawbale, and ee) plus the usual website > searching. Can anyone on this list give a coho layperson's summary > of radiant heat in concrete floors? > >3. Marriage of spirit and practicality: Today's MSV/MGC conference > call has been scheduled for a later date. Anyone who'd like more > information on Maharishi Sthapatya Ved and Maharishi Global > Construction can email to reception [at] mgc-vastu.com for a free > brochure. The MSV/MGC website is in preparation. I'll post the URL > soon. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Tom Nelson Scott Phone/Fax: 1-414-966-2902 >[company name] Business email: tom.scott [at] veda-home.com >W330 N8357 West Shore Drive Academic email: veda [at] csd.uwm.edu >Hartland WI 53029-9732 Academic web: http://www.uwm.edu/~veda > "Do less, accomplish more." >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:04:09 -0500 (EST) >From: MelaSilva [at] aol.com >To: cohousing-l [at] freedom.mtn.org >Subject: Spring is springing up all over >Message-ID: <970325100408_1151440297 [at] emout10.mail.aol.com> > > Here at Southside Park in Sacramento, the daffodils have already given >their all, the new asparagus bed needs steady wheelbarrows full of compost, >apricot trees have bloomed, the kiwi has really amazing furry leaves, the >kids are gathering jars full of rolly-pollys, every single yard has a >different group of flowering shrubs, we ate FABULOUS lettuce and baby snow >peas from our gardens at the last 2 meals. I learned how to thin the >extravegant number of teensy tiny soon-to-be fruit on one of the plumcot >trees, a very big deal to a city kid who never had a garden before! > Ever since we moved in 3 years ago, 2-4 kids have walked to the school >bus stop, accompanied by 1 adult. I joined them so that I could get an early >morning stretch, and now we often have a parade, with 3 or more adults, and >1 or 2 baby strollers joining in the mile and a half roundtrip fun. It really >is amazing how long it takes to get to know a few dozen people, especially >when we have such busy lives.That half hour walk has allowed our friendships >to really bloom. > A few months ago we rented a Karaoke machine and had a talent show. GREAT >fun! So now we are preparing for our "Silly and/or Talented" Contest on April >6, with "Silly and/or talented" prizes. Hope it will be a regular/irregular >event here! > >And that's it from Sacratamatoe! :) Have a great day! >Pam > > > > >------------------------------ > >Date: Mon, 24 Mar 97 18:22:07 UT >From: "Rob Sandelin" <Floriferous [at] msn.com> >Subject: RE: Cohousing-L tailing off >Message-ID: <UPMAIL03.199703251521470547 [at] msn.com> > > >>Re-read Rob Sandelin's inspirational note from a couple of weeks back on >>why groups fail and what to do to prevent it. (Rob, how about posting that >>from time to time to give us all a kick in the butt.) > >could be achieved by posting Rob's note on the web and Joani (or anyone) >periodically mentioning it and it's url on the list. > > >Gad how embarrassing, er, I don't have it anymore. If somebody does and wants >to post it go for it. I can't even remember what I said :-) > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 08:21:52 -0800 (PST) >From: abarbaro [at] wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us (Ann Barbarow) >To: jeblank [at] hooked.net, >Subject: Re:Homeowners' Association Dues > >At 04:30 AM 3/25/97 -0600, Joani Blank wrote: > However I was informed that by law--regulation >>of the Department of Real Estate perhaps? --it has to be allocated by >>square foot, at least here in California. > >I have never heard of such a thing. At Muir Commons (in Davis, CA), our >monthly dues were set by the Department of Real Estate and they are per >unit. Several people have tried to get a move afoot to change the structure >to recognize that households with more people tend to make greater use of >community resources, but that has never gotten too far. Some people have >thought we should somehow factor in "ability to pay", but that is a very >sticky topic. > > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 11:41:37 -0600 (CST) >From: Judy <BAXTER [at] epivax.epi.umn.edu> >To: cohousing-L [at] cohousing.org >Subject: re:Homeowners' Association Dues >Message-ID: <01IGX26U63HE9D973W [at] epivax.epi.umn.edu> > >I guess the fees thing varies by location. We were told that most condos do >either 1- by square foot >or > 2- per unit, regardless of size. > >A Cohouser from Tasmania (sorry, I forget his name) told of his group's >agonizing discussions, and eventual use of a log formula, to mix the two. > >We looked at that, decided too complex for most in the group to understand, and >instead looked at a proportional mixture of 1 and 2 above. We settled on >25% of fees assessed on per unit basis, 75% by square footage. That seemed to >allow something for larger usage by large households, but also the fact that >smaller homes may use common spaces more, or at least some minimum share of the >costs. As I always say, there is no one "fair" way, you just have to pick >something. > >Personally, the per unit way seems pretty unfair to me, as fewer folks tend to >live in less space. We discussed using number of persons, or adults, or >something, but decided we wanted the fees to go with the home, and not vary if >someone moves in or out. > >However, the group (in my absence, I might add) did a special assessment on a >per unit basis, to cover costs not covered by a rental. I gather the thought >of some was to motivate marketing. > >It's a tough issue for all of us, I think > >Judy > >Judy Baxter, Monterey Cohousing Community,(MoCoCo) Twin Cities Area, Mpls.,MN >-- e-mail: baxter [at] epivax.epi.umn.edu >****STARTING to remodel our Common Kitchen****** >****AND remodel laundry and create a warm woodshop >****AND close to installing a flotation tank, and then a Hot Tub >-- Resident of the "mansion"- the 1st 8 homes in a rehab Georgian building built >as a retirement home in 1924 - >-- 7 new townhouses (additions to the community) are done! - and occupied, one > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >is left for a Cohouser buyer, move in after June 1,1997 - 3 BR, >2 car tuck under garage, $145,000 > Voice Mail for Monterey Cohousing - 612-930-7554 > > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:43:03 -0600 (CST) >From: Judy <BAXTER [at] epivax.epi.umn.edu> >To: cohousing-L [at] cohousing.org >Subject: good things to come >Message-ID: <01IGXAGORN8I9D8Z9A [at] epivax.epi.umn.edu> > >Marty Roberts Two Acre Wood, Sebastopol >wrote: (MAR 25, 1997) ><< Please!! Thank you Brian for that suggestion. Boy, are we at the >point where we need good stories right now. I try to remind myself to >visualize living in our beautiful community a year from now, but it is really >hard in the midst of all this work!! (and fear and anxiety and difficult >decison making, etc.)>> > >Well, we aren't "there" yet in terms of rehab, but we are part way. What comes >to mind for me is coming home after work one night last December, somewhere >around Hanukah. I come from a "secular" Jewish family, but until my son went >away to college, I always had a Hanukah dinner. Had done that a couple of >times in Cohousing (the kids love playing the Dreidel game for chocolate >money). Anyhow, for various reasons, mostly exhaustion, I had no plans. but i >came home to find Ken (not Jewish) making Potato Latkes for Dinner. Aha! i >said, and found my notes, words for prayers, yarmulkes, menorah, dreidels, >even some chocolate money to go with scrounged up pennies. Someone else added >more stuff for dinner, and we had a lovely impromptu celebration that for me is >a solstice/Hanukah/festival of lights. No planning, no anxiety, it was really >warm and relaxed. > >I don't remember how many were there, but typically we cook for more than those >who sign up and somehow, people appear. > >Judy >Judy Baxter, Monterey Cohousing Community,(MoCoCo) Twin Cities Area, Mpls.,MN >-- e-mail: baxter [at] epivax.epi.umn.edu >****STARTING to remodel our Common Kitchen****** >****AND remodel laundry and create a warm woodshop >****AND close to installing a flotation tank, and then a Hot Tub >-- Resident of the "mansion"- the 1st 8 homes in a rehab Georgian building built >as a retirement home in 1924 - >-- 7 new townhouses (additions to the community) are done! - and occupied, one > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >is left for a Cohouser buyer, move in after June 1,1997 - 3 BR, >2 car tuck under garage, $145,000 > Voice Mail for Monterey Cohousing - 612-930-7554 > > > > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:05:04 -0600 (CST) >From: Cohousing-L listmgr <fholson [at] MTN.ORG> >To: cohousing-L [at] MTN.ORG >Subject: Eno Commons: Construction Ho! (fwd) >Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.970325160103.11843A-100000 [at] freedom.mtn.org> > >Sherri Zann Rosenthal of enocommons [at] compuserve.com >is the author of the message below but due to a problem it was posted >by the Fred the list manager: owner-cohousing-L [at] cohousing.org > >Tomorrow morning, March 25, construction starts at Eno Commons CoHousing. > >Also tomorrow, the documents for our Homeowners' Association and our >restrictive covenants will be filed, and the land will be transferred from >my name into the development company. > >We still have 9 beautiful lots left. Lots from $39,900. Home prices, >complete with lot, commons house, water and sewer, from below $120,000. >Please let people know about Eno Commons and this exciting milestone. > >In community, >Sherri > > > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:54:18 -0500 (EST) >From: MelaSilva [at] aol.com >To: cohousing-l [at] freedom.mtn.org >Subject: Re: Homeowners' Association Dues >Message-ID: <970325175158_-1437592717 [at] emout08.mail.aol.com> > >In a message dated 97-03-25 13:15:36 EST, you write: > >>We settled on >>25% of fees assessed on per unit basis, 75% by square footage. > >We did it this way, too. I am not sure it was 25/75, but close. > >Pam >Southside Park, Sacramento > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 25 Mar 97 17:22:13 CST >From: "Fred H. Olson" <fholson [at] maroon.tc.umn.edu> >To: cohousing-L [at] cohousing.org >Subject: Re: Cohousing-L tailing off >Message-ID: <87462.fholson [at] maroon.tc.umn.edu> > >Tho I think there may be a tendency to try and read too much into the >"tailing off" of the number of messages on Cohousing-L, the discussion >seems to be of interest based on the number of replies. Maybe we are >wondering if it portends something about the long term viability of >cohousing-L or even popularity of cohousing generally. Here in Minnesota >many of us sense that we are (uniquely ?) experiencing a decline in >cohousing interest. It's sort of a crisis of confidence in the value of >the idea - more in our heads than real I hope (and think). (I think it >can be largely be explained by burnout, maturing of initial enthusiasm >and lack of burning soles to organize area-wide activity and outreach.) > >I think cohousing is a good idea in the LONG RUN and bumps along the way >should not deter us. I am also confident that cohousing-L will continue >to be a useful tool for shifting reasons and a shifting group of people. > >In any case I decided to analyze the Cohousing-L number of messages a >little closer -- numbers are relatively easy examine (compared to >reality)... As we know numbers can lie, after all the "incense for >sale" and the "exclusive recreational community" spams counted as posted >messages. > >If we exclude the first year or so when the list was clearly building up, >and adjust for down time ( see below): > >The 2 years or so before the move, the average was 211 msg per month. >In the year or so since the move, the average has been 108 msg per month. > >It is clear now that the statement in the introduction to the list: >"Cohousing-L is a high volume list with about 300 messages per month." >is / was an overstatement even before the move. The number of messages >per month has fluctuated substantially and only 3 times exceeded 300. > >My hypothesis is still that the decline in numbers relates mostly to the >move to a new listserver AND the one month down time to make the move. >Therefore I decided to look closer at the pre-move decline that Stuart's >graph showed. I decided to look at month to month numbers and plot them; >see below. I looked up the significant server down times and put >them on the graph which significantly explains 2 months with low numbers >in the post-peak / pre-move period (6/95-1/96). That leaves one month >with low numbers in that period - September 1995. That month was in the >lead up to the second national convention and it may have been that people >were busy getting ready for the conference and posted less often (tho >emailed to other conference participants more ??) > >Thus I dont put too much significance on the pre-move decline. >I've previously stated a couple post-move factors and that >I DO NOT see the lower numbers to be a "problem". > >Fred > >Cohousing-L -- number of messages posted per month Compiled by Fred H. Olson ># messages: 100 150 200 300 > | | | | March >10/92 * | | | 3 | 24,1997 >11/92 * | | | 1 | >12/92 **** | | | 22 | > 1/93 ******* | | | 36 | > 2/93 * | | | 1 | > 3/93 ** | | | 11 | > 4/93 *** | | | 14 | > 5/93 ******** | | | 40 | > 6/93 *** | | | 14 | > 7/93 ********** | | | 53 | > 8/93 ****** | | | 31 | > 9/93 ****** | | | 30 | >10/93 * | | | 7 | >11/93 *******************|** | | 109 | >12/93 ****** | | | 32 | > 1/94 *********** | | | 55 | > 2/94 ****************** | | | 91 | > 3/94 *******************|******** | | 143 | > 4/94 *******************|*** | | 117 | > 5/94 *******************|*********|****** | 179 | > 6/94 *******************|*********|* | 157 | > 7/94 *******************|******** | | 143 | > 8/94 *******************|*********|*********|********264** | > 9/94 *******************|*********|*********|**** 222 | >10/94 *******************|****** | | 129 | >11/94 *******************|*********|** | 162 | >12/94 *******************|*********|***** | 175 | > 1/95 *******************|*********|********* 194 | > 2/95 *******************|*********|*********|******* 236 | > 3/95 *******************|*********|*********|********279***** | > 4/95 *******************|*********|*********|****** 231 | > 5/95 *******************|*********|*********|********301********* > 6/95 *******************|*********|*********|********360********|************ > 7/95 *******************............................ 94 (235) | dn:18 days > 8/95 *******************|*********|*********|********291******* | > 9/95 *******************|**** | | 119 (pre | natl conf) >10/95 *******************|*********|*********|********315********|*** >11/95 *******************|**********............... 151 (227) | dn:10 days >12/95 *******************|*********|********* 196 | > 1/96 *******************|*********|*********|* 204 | > 2/96 * | | | 1 | dn:30 days > 3/96 *******************|**** | | 123 | (at mtn) > 4/96 ************** | | | 72 | > 5/96 ************** | | | 70 | > 6/96 *******************|***** | | 126 | > 7/96 *******************|**** | | 123 | > 8/96 ***************** | | | 84 | > 9/96 ************** | | | 70 | >10/96 *******************|********** | 149 | >11/96 **************** | | | 79 | >12/96 **************........ | | 73 (109) | dn:10 days > 1/97 *******************|***** | | 124 | > 2/97 *************** | | | 75 | > 3/97 ************** |(partial)| | 69 | > | | | | > 100 150 200 300 > >NOTES: >* = 5 messages 3/24/97 >. = 5 messages that may have been posted if listserv was not down >(nnn) total number of messages or month that may have been posted if " " > # that "may have been posted" based on ((actual # msg) / (days up)) * 30 >subtotal 3/94 thru 1/96 4662 22 months (down about 30 days) 211/mo >subtotal 3/96 thru 3/24/97 1237 11.5 months (dn 10 days, part 3/97) 108/mo > >-- >Fred H. Olson fholson [at] tc.umn.edu >(612)588-9532 Amateur radio: WB0YQM List manager of: >Cohousing-L See http://www.cohousing.org/ and >Twin Cities Neighborhood issues list. See http://freenet.msp.mn.us/ > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 22:56:24 -0500 (EST) >From: MicalCedar [at] aol.com >To: Cohousing-l [at] freedom.mtn.org >Subject: Fwd: Next Great North American CoHousing Conference >Message-ID: <970325225454_1452945897 [at] emout14.mail.aol.com> > >In response to Joni's quire: at Marci's instruction I have blocked off >SEPTEMBER 19-21 for the North American Cohousing Conf. The site is the UoW >School of Architecture and Urban Planning.....and I'm sure that Marci can use >some help. > >Michael.......Olympia Cohosing Assoc >--------------------- >Forwarded message: >From: jeblank [at] hooked.net (Joani Blank) >Sender: cohousing-l [at] freedom.mtn.org >Reply-to: jeblank [at] hooked.net >Date: 97-03-25 06:05:35 EST > >I've heard rumors that the conference has been scheduled for late in >September or the very beginning of October. Perhaps my CoHousing Journal >would tell me but my reading pile is very backed up (darned email!). Marci, >will you please tell us when we should head for Seattle (exact dates, that >is). And remember to ask us for help when you figure out what you need in >the way of assistance. Even if you ask, you might not get the help, but I >can guarantee you won't get it if you don't ask. <smile> > >Joani Blank >Doyle St. Cohousing and Old Oakland (Swan's Market) > > >------------------------------ > >End of COHOUSING-L Digest 107 >***************************** > >
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