Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Beyond Polyamory: Other Sex and Relationship Issues (WARNING, this is long!)

[Eris Weaver (eris]

I have been following this thread with interest and some dismay at the
vehemence with which some people have expressed their judgement about other
people's sex and relationship choices.  As a Lesbian since my teens, I have
had to live with other people's judgements about my orientation/choices
(including being sent to a shrink and kicked out of the house by my parents)
all my life, and this conversation has pushed some VERY big buttons for me.
I have waited to chime in until I could do so in a non-reactive,
non-emotional manner.

I appreciated Stuart Staniford-Chen 's questions:

>What specific feelings do you personally have about the concept of someone
in
>your community being polyamorous?  (Feelings, not judgements).

Deb, I appreciated your attempt to address this question; but can you see
that your response is still a JUDGEMENT or an OPINION and not a FEELING?
(Just saying "I feel" in front of something doesn't make it a feeling!)

>I feel as though polyamory is a social experiment populated by
>naive though well-intentioned idealists, and also perhaps
>by some opportunists seeking extra sex partners.  I feel the
>ideal of polyamory has yet to be realized by most poly people,
>just as the ideal of monogamy escapes most married couples.

I would invite you to focus on the second of Stuart's questions:

>What bad thing might happen to you because of a polyamorous neighbour?

This is really what is relevant here, in relation to cohousing, IMHO; other
people's individual choices are none of anybody else's business UNLESS and
UNTIL they adversely affect the rest of the community.  I have yet to see
anyone who objects to polyamory personally state any valid reason that it
might affect the community as a whole.

I found Joani's list of questions very interesting.  At some point I may
bring it to my cohousing group for discussion! (Get these topics out in the
open BEFORE we're actually living together!)

> How about broadening the recent thread to  sharing
> the ways in which you as an individual or your community handles or might
> react to one or more of the following scenarios or situation.  I'd also be
> interested in hearing how folks think they might explain any of these
> things to their kids.
>
> 1. A  young single mom is dating someone from outside the community
> steadily. He often spends the night at her house, and most weekends she is
> with him while her son is with his father.
> 2. A couple who is not married is living together. (Don't laugh. When I
was
> growing up, this was considered quite immoral by some.)
> 3.  A man in the community has a collection of erotic art hanging in his
> home.
> 4.  A single woman has two or more boyfriends who often spend the night
> after an evening date with her.
> 5. An older man is visited weekly by an attractive young masseuse, who
some
> suspect or assume to be a professional sex worker.
> 6.  An older woman is in a committed relationship with a man 22 years her
> junior--the same age as her grown son.
> 7. A  male couple socializes a great deal with a half dozen other gay men.
> 8. A lesbian couple has one child and another on the way.

1-8 all fall into the NOYDB ("none of your damn business") category;
meaning, whether you personally engage in or condone any of these behaviors,
they are personal and not anything the rest of the community needs to
comment on.  As for how you explain it to your children, that's up to you
and your moral code.  I have a teenage son myself; and while we are fairly
open about nudity and discussing sexuality in my household, he has known
from a young age that other people don't share our ideas about things, and
behaves appropriately.

> 9. An adult in the community is overly affectionate with the children  to
> the point where parents are uncomfortable about having their kids spend
> time with this adult.

THIS one is an issue!  Children need to have their boundaries respected and
someone needs to have a conversation with this adult.  Privately, at first.
With specific requests about what is and isn't appropriate.

> 10. There is a very effeminate man or masculine woman or someone who
openly
> identifies as transgendered or transsexual in the community.
> 11.  You have reason to believe from the sounds issuing from one house
that
> the monogamous, married couple who lives there engages in somewhat "kinky"
> sexual practices.

Again, NOYDB.  And again, how you explain this to your kids ("They're
playing loudly, no I don't know what game and no I don't think you should
ask if you can play too!") is up to you.

> 12.  Several people in the community know that an ostensibly monogamous
man
> or woman is having a "affair" unbeknownst to his or her spouse.

This is a sticky one.  In a work or less tightly-knit social situation I'd
say it's NOYDB, but in cohousing where people are FRIENDS with each other
this puts the people who "know" in a very uncomfortable position.  Of
course, HOW DO THEY KNOW is a question.  If they know because the one having
the affair has TOLD them about it, then those individuals need to deal with
it themselves.  If somebody knows because they saw something, same thing --
the person who received the information needs to deal directly with the
person involved.  I personally would say something like, "I know you're
having an affair with X and I am really uncomfortable knowing something that
your wife doesn't know."

Also, if you "think" you know someone's having affair because of something
you think you saw, you'd better check it out with them in case that's NOT
really what's happening, because it's so easy to make wrong assumptions!
(Thanks, R, for your story!)

In this case, nobody needs to tell the kids anything unless the kids have
SEEN something and have questions or concerns.

> 13. Some parents in the community think it is okay for kids to learn a lot
> about sexuality at a young age, or to see sexually explicit videos when
> they are in elementary or junior high school; others do not.

It's certainly OK for people to have different standards on this, but they
must respect other people's standards in regards to their children!   As I
said, I'm fairly open with my son and probably let him see things that are
more sexually explicit than some parents might; but I'm sure as hell not
gonna try to influence how other people raise their kids!  I don't take
other kids to the movies with us without talking to their parents to make
sure it's ok with them for their kid to see the movie, for example. And I
hope that other parents do the same with MY kids.  (I'm more likely to veto
a movie for violence than sex.)   Now, this does overlap with #3, the erotic
art, question.  I keep my sex toys in the bedroom where the kids aren't
allowed, but there may be a  nude painting in my bathroom or an artsy-type
erotic book on my coffee table, and I ain't gonna decorate my house by
someone else's standards!  If those things offend you & you don't want your
kids to see them, then you probably don't want your kids hanging out in my
house.

> 14. The gay couple occaisionally walks through the common area arm in arm
> and  have been seen greeting one another with a kiss when returning from
> work.
> 15 A couple with a 16 year old daughter lets the daughter's boyfriend
spend
> the night  at their home with her.

Again, NOYDB.
*****************************************************
Eris Weaver                            eris [at] wco.com
"Let the beauty we love be what we do."
                         ---Mevlana Jelaladin Rumi