Re: Financial innovation
From: John Faust (
Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 15:19:18 -0700 (PDT)
Apologies to all. Will be more circumspect in the future.

John Faust

On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 12:35 PM, Matthew Whiting <mewhiting [at]>

> John, There is lots that has been written and said about the failure of the
> Kirtland Savings Association.  Whether you think it or not, please don't
> bash the beliefs of Mormons on the list.  As we're trying to get cohousing
> going in a predominantly Mormon area (Utah County UT) it will certainly not
> help us.
> There were *lots* of bank failures at that time this was one of them.  A
> large in-flux of poor people with little assets and large debts that were
> not made good upon.  "Overly" large debt to income ratios are hard for
> banks
> to support just like it is for a normal person, though what is considered
> "too" much is rather different.  If the cohousing banks are marketing to a
> similar demographic then I would expect them to have some of the same
> problems.  Some were rather unique to the Mormon experience - I doubt that
> cohousing groups are dealing with the same kind of persecution that Mormons
> were facing at the time (disgruntled cohousing members inciting the public
> against them, etc ???).
> I read through the bit of the link you provided, it's not a bad summary of
> events.  Unfortunately it gives no indication of why the bank failed.  Did
> it fail because Joseph and Sidney skimmed funds?  Did it fail because they
> were too open hearted and loaned to people who were "subprime"?  Were there
> runs on the bank?  Not a high enough interest rate? How did disaffected
> Mormons play into it? If you are interested I would suggest looking at a
> more thorough treatment of the subject.  Just remember that when dealing
> with a religous topic writers will always have a slant and in my experience
> most of the slant is biased against religous belief in general, not just a
> particular religon.
> -Matt Whiting
> Utah Valley Commons - forming
> Provo UT
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