Re: Reality Based and Truth Seeking | <– Date –> <– Thread –> |
From: Jill B Murray (jillbmurrayyahoo.com) | |
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2021 08:48:49 -0700 (PDT) |
Fern, There were many people on both sides of the issue who misread Charles’s words, so he wrote a response which was included at the end of the essay in my post. Did you read the response? I hope you do. There is no ill will in the article or judgement of individuals, it is a social critique which points out some patterns to consider. Examination of social patterns has been a hallmark of cohousers, for many it’s what has got folks t/here. Pierce Jill Murray (she/her) Community seeker Live in Idyllwild, CA > On Aug 17, 2021, at 4:57 AM, Fern Selzer/US/CA/95003/NBC via Cohousing-L > <cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org> wrote: > > Hi Jill:Eisenstein’s article that you sent the link to, was also sent to me > by an anti-VAX friend. I find it offensive enough that I must say something. > There were hundreds of thousands of Germans, many not even in the military, > knowingly involved with transporting, supervising, and killing Jews, gypsies, > homosexuals, and people with disabilities. All those people, and the > scientists who collaborated with Hitler knew they were harming people. So > to compare them to pro-vax people is offensive to me. If people who are for > the vaccine are incorrect, which I highly doubt, they are motivated by the > wish to save everyone, not by the desire to kill off the people who they > think are contaminating the species. Your post probably went through > because the moderator did not know what was in the article. I hope he will > post my response, even though it isn’t really relevant to co-housing and > sounds argumentative. I have been carefully following much anti-vax > rhetoric. This article was especially offensive, but it also is distorting > the facts in sneaky ways, just like the others I have read. > I agree the issues that Sharon has raised are important in our co-housing > communities. Here is another article about the difficulty of seeing truth- > “Why Facts Don’t Change Our Minds” by Elizabeth Kolbert. (Written after > Trump but before QAnon) > FernNew Brighton Cohousing > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2021 15:25:18 -0700 > From: Jill B Murray <jillbmurray [at] yahoo.com> > To: cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org > Subject: Re: [C-L]_ Reality Based and Truth Seeking > Message-ID: <37E1D4F2-EBFE-402E-BF36-D26947D2D51E [at] yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > ? > ?Great essay and thank you for taking the huge leap into simplifying those > 200 pages! :-) > > As to your question, one concern I would be very reluctant to bring to a > meeting, however, at some communities I might not have to make that decision > because it seems I would not be allowed at the meeting in the first place, is > that of the bias against unvaccinated people and the lumping of them into a > group of ignorant, uncaring, selfish, and infectious beings. > > This issue has become so polarizing and I feel one of the reasons is that > there has been no platform made available for the various sides of the issue > to discuss their views and findings. > > Many people who have chosen not to get the vaccination have scientific, > moral, spiritual, medical and rational reasons for not getting vaccinated. > However, much of the credible data and research that has come out is stamped > out quickly. > > Why are ?the powers that be? so fearful of having an open, reality based > inquiry into such an important issue facing humanity at this time? > > I usually remain silent whenever this topic comes up, however your post > Sharon helped me to see that it is important that my voice be included. > > Here is one perspective that I can pass on that has not been shut down, yet. > It is a recent essay by Charles Eisenstein and below it his response to the > misreading and backlash to the essay. > > https://charleseisenstein.substack.com/p/mob-morality-and-the-unvaxxed > > And Sharon, I absolutely loved your postscript, ?Before I started writing > today??! > > Pierce Jill Murray (she/her) > Community seeker > Live in Idyllwild, California > > > > >> On Aug 15, 2021, at 1:15 PM, Sharon Villines via Cohousing-L <cohousing-l >> [at] cohousing.org> wrote: >> >> ?(It?s a long way down to the relevance of this to cohousing, but stay with >> me.) >> >> By happy accident I just read two books back to back that helped me >> understand the psychology and power of the truth deniers phenomenon. >> >> _Der Fuehrer: Hitler?s Rise to Power_ by Konrad Heiden >> https://tinyurl.com/yhmf97ee >> Jonathan Rauch?s _The Constitution of Knowledge: A defense of the truth._ >> https://amzn.to/3AYhva3 >> >> How do you make sense of people who do not correct in the face of >> overwhelming evidence? People who can deny that they said something that >> they have just been shown a video of themselves saying. Who seem to have >> unlimited energy to spread disinformation in every possible corner of the >> media ? including rallies in huge sports stadiums. >> >> I wanted to read about Hitler because I realized I knew little about how he >> actually came to power and functioned within his government. The Hitler >> expert on FiveBooks.com recommended Der Fuehrer as the best first book to >> read because it was written contemporaneously by an historian who actually >> interviewed everyone himself and researched written sources before the >> ?outside? understood what was coming. >> >> This is generally discouraged because contemporaneous history is thought to >> be biased, a part of the story it writes. Not in this case. Heiden's writing >> ended in 1942 and the book was printing and published in 1944. It took a >> long time for books to be published then ? a two year process. His >> interviews and paper tracking was done well before the world was forced by >> the war?s final revelations to face reality. What Heiden saw in the 1930?s, >> the world was still refusing to believe in the 1940s. >> >> Hitler?s personal interests and the methods he and his perpetrators used are >> exactly like Trump's and his enablers. Neither Trump nor Hitler could have >> succeeded without other people eliminating the opposition and providing the >> funding. From his first attempts to gain political power, Hitler?s people >> killed opposing politicians and he was given multiple government positions >> that funded his movement. Trump?s opposition was obliterated with payoffs, >> threats, and outrageous lies. He used the illusion of his business prowess >> to prop up the illusion of his finances. Hitler took over the public >> institutions and created his own super-bureaucracies. Trump blew up the >> public institutions, fired hundreds of agency staff, and replaced leaders >> with people of his choosing in empty offices. >> >> There were times when I had to stop and remind myself that I was reading >> about Hitler and not Trump. In most places, just doing a search on ?Hitler" >> and replacing with ?Trump" would have produced a text that was just as >> accurate. Heiden gives multiple examples of the deceit of the propagandist: >> they believed not a word of what they say. It just gets them the attention >> they want. It?s questionable whether Hitler had any feelings at all about >> Jews one way or the other. They were just convenient for stirring up hate. >> Trump had no cares for his supporters and routinely legislated against them. >> And used their ills to distract from his own actions in other areas. >> >> Fortunate for me that I did read these two books back to back because >> watching the build up of Hitler at the same time as watching Trump not leave >> office was depressing. All seemed futile. But then Rauch examines the Trump >> presidency and explains how deniers, disrupters, and disinformation >> spreaders win and how to defeat them. They win because the path they take is >> an easy one when used to defeat reality-based truth-seekers. They don?t even >> have to create a new reality or come up with a better solution. They only >> have to spread doubt and discontent and confusion?no answers, no ideas, only >> emotion. >> >> The things they do seem like a larger danger because their premise is so >> outrageous, it can?t be refuted. One is struck dumb instead. They know >> proving or refuting a negative is impossible. All they have to do is create >> and spread false, suggestive information?no proofs required. And the digital >> world has made this so easy to do. Free speech goes both ways. >> >> Rauch begins by exploring the nature of knowledge?who decides what it is? >> What is it and how is it constituted? Making a huge leap into simplifying >> 200 pages of wonderful history and analysis, I?ll say it comes down to >> understanding that: >> >> 1. We only have our own senses with which to search for the truth. We are >> inherently limited in what we can know and biased by our limitations. >> >> 2. Knowledge is constructed in dialogue with others using their >> perspectives, understanding, and biases to check our own. Reality-based >> truth-seeking people construct knowledge through communities of knowledge. >> In systems language, the dialogue provides the necessary corrective feedback >> loops. The broader the dialogue, the deeper the understanding. Knowledge is >> socially constructed. >> >> The importance of transparency and the sharing of information is what has >> speeded up the construction of knowledge since 1600. COVID vaccine was the >> first vaccine developed in this open source environment. That is the reason >> the labs were able to do in 12 days that would have taken 12 years in the >> 20th century. >> >> The sole aim of tyrants is to disrupt that process of reality based inquiry. >> Denying it causes us to question our own senses and to distrust those of >> others. As a result the truth-seekers are flummoxed?their language and all >> their agreements so far are taken away. What do you say when someone says we >> will win because we are basing our campaign on alternate facts? >> >> Propagandists win by producing outrage on one side and silence on the other. >> Why were so many people silent and ineffective against Hitler and Trump? >> >> Rauch puts the kabash on that in the last 50 pages, however. The defense and >> ultimate defeat of propaganda is in (1) preserving diversity of opinions, >> (2) speaking up, and (3) insisting on speaking the truth. >> >> To have a measured response it is vital not to treat their absurdities as >> anything at all. Their pronouncements are irritating and dumbfounding, but >> are not cataclysmic. The earth is not flat just because they say it is. >> Don?t give them that much power. Let them die on the vine if that is all >> their ideas are worth. >> >> Rauch quotes Lincoln as saying we need to speak up with "reverence and >> reason.? Not give them the outrage that will steer us off course and into >> meeting their objectives for them. They need us to complete what they begin. >> >> The connection to cohousing, finally ?I found a purpose for diversity. It >> isn?t just about wearing the badge of civil rights on our left sleeve; it?s >> about preserving and enlarging the reality-based truth-seeking community. >> The one that self corrects and thrives on difference. Where everyone speaks >> up with ?reverence and reason.? Silence does neither. >> >> In the ongoing discussions about how to attract minority populations to >> cohousing, this answers my question, ?What is skin-color difference going to >> get you?" Why is this important? How would it change the community except to >> make us look less like the homogenous, white, middle-class community we >> don?t want to be? >> >> We need diversity and inclusiveness to continue constructing knowledge. >> >> My next question, which no one has answered either, is do we really >> understand what diversity we have now? How much diversity is living right >> next door but gives in to silence? Rauch discusses the many ways we are all >> silenced by the norm in the room. Every community reports that governance >> smooths out over time. Why? Because silence has smoothed it? Or has >> knowledge smoothed it out? >> >> Do we know why people have different opinions than ours? And why theirs are >> as valid as ours? And how to form a wholistic world view from including both >> of them? >> >> Homework: What three concerns would you never raise in a meeting because >> others would view doing so as divisive, sympathy seeking, or not the >> direction anyone else wants to go? >> >> Sharon >> ---- >> Sharon Villines, Washington DC >> "Behavior is determined by the prevailing form of decision making." Gerard >> Endenburg >> >> >> Before I started writing today, this is the text I sent to the work-day >> lunch preparer: >> >> Could you save me some taquitos? I?m working on bylaws stuff and writing a >> cohousing article and can?t take the risk of being distracted by >> cohousing!!!!! Can I come down later and pick up a container in the fridge? >> >> She came up and I exchanged a hunk of sourdough bread I baked last night for >> a plate of taquitos and a slice of watermelon. >> >> _________________________________________________________________ > > _________________________________________________________________ > Cohousing-L mailing list -- Unsubscribe, archives and other info at: > http://L.cohousing.org/info > > >
- Re: Reality Based and Truth Seeking, (continued)
- Re: Reality Based and Truth Seeking Sharon Villines, August 17 2021
- Re: Reality Based and Truth Seeking Crystal Farmer, August 16 2021
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Re: Reality Based and Truth Seeking fernselzer, August 16 2021
- Re: Reality Based and Truth Seeking cohoyote [at] gmail.com, August 17 2021
- Re: Reality Based and Truth Seeking Jill B Murray, August 17 2021
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