| Re: COHOUSING-L digest 723 | <– Date –> <– Thread –> |
From: Andy King (aking webreference.com)
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| Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 19:28:11 -0600 | |
how can i unsubscribe? > COHOUSING-L Digest 723 > >Topics covered in this issue include: > > 1) Re: A personal note > by fertilezone [at] ebox.oo.net > 2) Re: Sanda has no email for the weekend > by Sanda Everette <severette [at] ed.co.sanmateo.ca.us> > 3) Re: Sanda has no email for the weekend > by Sanda Everette <severette [at] ed.co.sanmateo.ca.us> > 4) Re: Consensus Fallbacks > by Stevenson/Bitner <lilbert [at] concentric.net> > 5) Re: paying for sweat equity > by Rowena Conkling <rowenac [at] worldnet.att.net> > 6) RE: paying $ for sweat equity > by "Rob Sandelin" <floriferous [at] email.msn.com> > 7) Joint work yes, paid work -caution > by Lynn Nadeau <welcome [at] olympus.net> > 8) RE: paying $ for sweat equity > by Stevenson/Bitner <lilbert [at] concentric.net> > 9) Aging in Place > by Virginia Moreland <vmoreland [at] mindspring.com> > 10) Labor systems > by "Rob Sandelin" <floriferous [at] email.msn.com> > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 17:49:03 -0800 >From: fertilezone [at] ebox.oo.net >To: Stevenson/Bitner <lilbert [at] concentric.net> >Subject: Re: A personal note > >Liz Stevenson wrote: > >>..At the beginning of December, my husband, .. lost his job of >more than 9 years. Meanwhile, I've been an at-home mom for five >years and needed to get employed right away, so I'm temping. > >Hello Liz, > >You helped us with Bay area Coho info. during our move from >Seattle. At the moment we are desperately looking for Berkeley's >new name and any other East Bay communities near Fremont, >San Ramon, Walnut Creak. Any thoughts? Anybody? > >Since we are still living with relatives in the SF bay area and >making some progress toward work, I'd just like to pass on the >methods that worked so far, and wish you the best during your job >transition. > >After being in the SF bay area for 5 weeks, we've made the >security check stage for a $20k yr. food service job and qualified for >a 3rd interview in a $35-40k yr. job. in Fremont :) > >All these jobs are direct, and the best opportunities have all come >from the same Web Site http://www.eastbayworks.org/ >Eastbay Works Job Seeker Services > >Most of my interviews came from the ability call a person directly >and from the EastBay works web site above. I also faxed, & >emailed resumes in droves, but untold numbers of these blind >fax/emails must fall into some kind of black hole. A direct phone >line / voice message & post interview thank you letter has worked >much better for us. This direct phone-call principle might also >apply to the on-line classifieds, such as: > >SFGate: Who's Hiring? >http://sfgate.com/whoshiring/ > >San Jose Mercury News JobHunter >http://classifieds.sjmercury.com/classifieds/jobhunter/indexnojava.h >tml > >#1 Technical Staffing Corporation >http://www.tech-search.com/framesetN.html?clientAgentIS=NW4 > >You can also post resumes and do searches from >http://www.careermosaic.com/ > >The internet newsgroups specific to the SF bay area, may also >help if your expertise is in either computers or related recruiting / >technical writing > >a2i.ba.jobs.offered >a2i.ba.jobs.offered.hivol >ba.jobs.agency >ba.jobs.contract >ba.jobs.contract.agency >ba.jobs.direct >ba.jobs.offerd >ba.jobs.offered >ba.jobs.resumes >alt.bestjobsusa.sfransisco.jobs > >My progress has been related to having direct phone contacts and >interviewing skills, which are improving, since I bought a $45.00 >Thomas guide and stoped getting lost. > > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 18:22:54 -0800 >From: Sanda Everette <severette [at] ed.co.sanmateo.ca.us> >To: "Joseph V. Kelly" <jkelly [at] videonics.com> >Subject: Re: Sanda has no email for the weekend >Message-ID: <3696BD6E.4C9AFC24 [at] ed.co.sanmateo.ca.us> > >Joe, >Well it is after 5pm and the mail is still there. I don't know how long it >will be. Thanks for the offer to help me through the difficult weekend...I >assume that means I would only have the ability to surf but, gasp, no email. >Well we have a different solution to wean me away from the email...we are >going to San Diego for the weekend. I found out I don't have to work on >Monday so that makes it even easier....we have some projects we need to do >there. We'll be back in time for Brian to go to work on Monday and hopefully >my email is back by then. > >Ana will probably be moving in over the weekend. Please help make her >welcome. She may come tonight in which case, I will see her but otherwise I >won't. She already knows we won't be here. > >Pam said she could be available for meetings on Wednesdays. That sounds good >to me (except for the Los Prados Neighborhood meeting on the 27th. Perhaps I >can do both as that one is from 6-8) So can we meet this coming Wednesday; I >guess that is the 13th. I'll be cooking. > > >> >> Sanda, >> >> don't worry. If you want, we can help you through this difficult >> weekend. >> >> __________________________________________________________________________ >> Subject: Sanda has no email for the weekend >> Author: Sanda Everette >> Date: 1/7/99 7:12 AM -0800 >> >> > Folks, I received this message from my ISP. I will be without email >> > this weekend. > >-- > >Sanda and Brian Everette >http://www.wordrunner.com/sanda > >San Mateo Cooperative Community >http://www.wordrunner.com/sanda/smcc.htm >Toward a sustainable lifestyle: >grow some of your own food and/or know the gardener who is growing it. > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 18:34:06 -0800 >From: Sanda Everette <severette [at] ed.co.sanmateo.ca.us> >Subject: Re: Sanda has no email for the weekend >Message-ID: <3696C00E.B006CE41 [at] ed.co.sanmateo.ca.us> > >Oops, again. This mail was sent to my community group. I don't know how >cohousing-L got into the list....well I have an idea of how I made this goof. >Now you know what is going on in our community and that as small as we are, >sometimes more communication is happening by email than in person. > >Sanda Everette wrote: >> >> Joe, >> Well it is after 5pm and the mail is still there. I don't know how long it >> will be. Thanks for the offer to help me through the difficult weekend...I >> assume that means I would only have the ability to surf but, gasp, no email. >> Well we have a different solution to wean me away from the email...we are >> going to San Diego for the weekend. I found out I don't have to work on >> Monday so that makes it even easier....we have some projects we need to do >> there. We'll be back in time for Brian to go to work on Monday and hopefully >> my email is back by then. >> >> Ana will probably be moving in over the weekend. Please help make her >> welcome. She may come tonight in which case, I will see her but otherwise I >> won't. She already knows we won't be here. >> >> Pam said she could be available for meetings on Wednesdays. That sounds >>good >> to me (except for the Los Prados Neighborhood meeting on the 27th. >>Perhaps I >> can do both as that one is from 6-8) So can we meet this coming >>Wednesday; I >> guess that is the 13th. I'll be cooking. >> >> > >> > Sanda, >> > >> > don't worry. If you want, we can help you through this difficult >> > weekend. >> > >> > __________________________________________________________________________ >> > Subject: Sanda has no email for the weekend >> > Author: Sanda Everette >> > Date: 1/7/99 7:12 AM -0800 >> > >> > > Folks, I received this message from my ISP. I will be without email >> > > this weekend. >> >> -- >> >> Sanda and Brian Everette >> http://www.wordrunner.com/sanda >> >> San Mateo Cooperative Community >> http://www.wordrunner.com/sanda/smcc.htm >> Toward a sustainable lifestyle: >> grow some of your own food and/or know the gardener who is growing it. > >-- > >Sanda and Brian Everette >http://www.wordrunner.com/sanda > >San Mateo Cooperative Community >http://www.wordrunner.com/sanda/smcc.htm >Toward a sustainable lifestyle: >grow some of your own food and/or know the gardener who is growing it. > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 8 Jan 99 18:32:50 -0800 >From: Stevenson/Bitner <lilbert [at] concentric.net> >To: <Dahako [at] aol.com>, >Subject: Re: Consensus Fallbacks > >> Most of the Northeasterners in the group were knee- >>jerk anti-gun primarily because they felt that any gun in the community would >>undermine their security. >I believe the term "knee-jerk" is quite loaded, and tips your hand as to >your own bias. It sounds to me as if Sherri has alot of responsibility >in your group, and doesn't like meetings very much (my own conclusion, >nothing more). Perhaps she doesn't feel that the process is working for >her. A group can go too far in trying to get new members in. If they >didn't feel welcome enough, maybe cohousing isn't for them. It takes a >certain amount of intestinal fortitude to live in cohousing and deal with >thorny issues without running away. People who can't handle it usually >give a reason like they didn't feel welcome, instead of owning up to the >fact that they really didn't want to give up what they consider their >inalienable rights, but which are, in fact, luxuries of living on their >own- i.e., three cars, lots of space, guns, roaming pets, whatever. (My >first meeting with Southside Park Cohousing was a very contentious affair >involving money and our architect and builder. Everyone said at the >evaluation that they were afraid that they scared us out of coming back. >My answer was that, on the contrary, people who could disaggree in such a >respectful way were people I wanted to live with.) Treasure the people >who are already in your community. You have to live with them. Don't let >desperation, either with the process or with unsold lots, fool you into >thinking that you need specific people to be placated in order to move >them in. My guess is, if they had gotten their way on the gun issue, >there would be another issue, and another, down the road that would make >them feel "unwelcome". Every person who we ever let into the group who >felt that way has been a problem. *Every single one*. All of those have >left, or are trying to leave. In their places, we have gotten people who >can deal with decisions that have already been made, and respect the fact >that we worked hard to get to those decisions. > >As for patronizing old members, I think that stems from new members not >being brought up to speed, and someone needs to pick up the ball on that. >We have a buddy policy for new members so that they won't feel like they >keep asking stupid questions. A volunteer takes a new member under their >wing, and the new member can ask the buddy any and all questions without >feeling silly. It is a simple and very useful solution. > >And so, I will close by using an awful pun. Sherri, stick to your guns! > > > > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1999 08:57:19 -0800 >From: Rowena Conkling <rowenac [at] worldnet.att.net> >To: rchaet [at] mindspring.com >Subject: Re: paying for sweat equity >Message-ID: <36978A6E.74833D21 [at] worldnet.att.net> > > > >To what extent do you consider work other than physical labor to be "sweat >equity" (a funny term since there is no equit involved!)? For instance, is >keeping up the community web-page, labor? What about child care supervision? >Management board duties? Acting as community facilitators? > >We've had a lot of trouble dealing with this issue and finally concluded that >some people were happy worker bees, some were resigned worker bees, and some >were drones, and there wasn't much one could do tochange that. At Cambridge >Coho we have an "expectation" that everyone will contribute time to the >community but no enforcement mechanism. Which can create hard feelings - but >most people really hate the idea of having "labor police" judging the value of >others' contributions. In reality, of course, we all know who they are :-( > >RowenaC at Cambridge Coho > > > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 08:04:53 -0000 >From: "Rob Sandelin" <floriferous [at] email.msn.com> >To: <dmmj [at] ncal.verio.com>, >Subject: RE: paying $ for sweat equity >Message-ID: <000201be3ba6$bd053e80$dc9cfad0@default> > > >> >> > If there is not a clear advantage in having insiders do the >> paid work on >> > a project, a really clear advantage, like it would cost half as >> much, or >> > avoid a long education process to bring someone up to speed, then my >> > advice is to use non-community members, and steer clear of the >> pitfalls. >> > You have to live together for a long time! > >At Sharingwood, the membership did about 70% of the construction work to >build our commonhouse. We all pitched in to help in varies ways with no >expectations put on any one person. It was was a great experience. In >particular I fondly remember the day we had 11 people on the roof laying the >roofing, 9 of which had never done any roofing before. We all became very >empowered that day, and it was one of many highlights of my life here. > >Working together physically to create something together that you will use >is an important glue. We also built our playground ourselves. When you let >others do that stuff for you, I think you lose something important. > >Rob Sandelin >Sharingwood > > > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sat, 9 Jan 99 10:56:23 -0800 >From: Lynn Nadeau <welcome [at] olympus.net> >To: "cohousing L" <cohousing-l [at] freedom.mtn.org> >Subject: Joint work yes, paid work -caution >Message-ID: <E0zz3XC-0002OI-00 [at] olympus.net> > >Lynn wrote: >> > If there is not a clear advantage in having insiders do the >> paid work on >> > a project, a really clear advantage, like it would cost half as >> much, or >> > avoid a long education process to bring someone up to speed, then my >> > advice is to use non-community members, and steer clear of the >> pitfalls. >> > You have to live together for a long time! > > >Rob wrote: >At Sharingwood, the membership did about 70% of the construction work to >build our commonhouse. We all pitched in to help in varies ways with no >expectations put on any one person. It was a great experience. In >particular I fondly remember the day we had 11 people on the roof laying >the >roofing, 9 of which had never done any roofing before. We all became very >empowered that day, and it was one of many highlights of my life here. > >Working together physically to create something together that you will use >is an important glue. We also built our playground ourselves. When you let >others do that stuff for you, I think you lose something important. > >Lynn responds: >Rob missed my point. My caution is on the subject of paying one or two >members hundreds or thousands of dollars for a particular task. The >Sharingwood common house project sounds like it was volunteer work, or if >compensated, that everyone had an equal opportunity to participate. >I agree with all Rob said about the value of work parties and such. We in >fact have 4400 hours of volunteer work pledged towards our common house >construction (rough estimates gathered so we had some idea if it would >allow us to trim the budget), and look forward to this as a great >community-enhancing opportunity. > >And we may end up paying some community members for specific work beyond >their volunteer work, but with the cautions noted. > >One unrelated point: Given that the first 5 households did years of >intensive work self-developing our project, before others bought in, we >acknowledged that with a "pioneer discount" on the lot prices, when we >set the lot prices, of about a thousand dollars per year worked on the >project. A token, in terms of the thousands of hours involved, but it >felt appropriate to both old and new members. Someday that will show up >as increased capital gains on resale, but that didn't bother us. > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sat, 9 Jan 99 11:43:33 -0800 >From: Stevenson/Bitner <lilbert [at] concentric.net> >To: <floriferous [at] email.msn.com>, >Subject: RE: paying $ for sweat equity > >I agree that building things together really helps the community in more >ways than a cost-benefit analysis would tell you. But we are talking >about two different things here, and people are not being clear about the >meaning of sweat equity. Some people are talking about regular chores >and others are talking about capital improvements. I really think we >need to define what it is before we can give each other advice about it. > > > > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1999 18:16:39 -0500 >From: Virginia Moreland <vmoreland [at] mindspring.com> >Subject: Aging in Place >Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19990109181639.0071a050 [at] mindspring.com> > > >I'm posting this inquiry on behalf of some of our East Lake Commons >members. Many of us are concerned about people being able to stay in our >community as they age or become ill. All but three of our units are >townhouses, involving two or three stories. > >A small committee is doing some very preliminary investigation of how we >might provide alternatives. For instance, our second common house is not >designed yet, and it's been suggested that several one room efficiencies >could be built as an attached wing. Some of them would even like to >provide some kind of facilitated living - such as providing three meals a >day rather just regular community dinners. (But not going as far as true >"assisted living.") > >Since North American cohousing hasn't been established all that long, my >neighbors are especially curious about whether any special provisions for >aging in place with additional support services have been established >either in the longer-running European cohousing communities or other >intentional communities in the states. Of course it would also be helpful >to know what other "young" (or still-in-the-womb) cohousing groups might be >planning or thinking about this for the future. > >I think the whole list might be interested in resonses, but you can also >contact the person who is spearheading this investigation for us. She is >Kathy Johnson, reachable at kathybjohnson [at] mindspring.com or (404)577-1498. > >Ginny Moreland >East Lake Commons (Decatur, GA, across the street from Atlanta) >Whose boss, when he saw an elevation rendering of my three-story townhouse, >commented "Oh, I see you're not planning to get old, are you?" > >And where we're in mid-construction and my house got a roof last week! >Lots of homes still available. >http://members.aol.com/elakecmmns > > > > > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 17:15:11 -0000 >From: "Rob Sandelin" <floriferous [at] email.msn.com> >To: <rowenac [at] worldnet.att.net>, >Subject: Labor systems >Message-ID: <000001be3bf3$9fd0b720$dfc9fbd0@default> > >I changed the title of this thread since it seems to have changed direction >away from sweat equity, which is the use of work to pay down construction >costs. > >Rowena asked about the nature of how to get people to pitch in. As a self >managed development, cohousing has some requirements for resident >participation. How much any given participant contributes will vary, >depending on the tasks and their life. > >Having seen this issue in lots of different kinds of communities, my advice >is to be flexible in your requirements but pay attention, not to what any >given person does or does not do, but which tasks get accomplished and which >ones do not. > >The simpliest system I have seen work in several places is some variation of >a chore board, where the tasks that are NOT getting done, get posted. If the >task does not get done anonymously before the next community meeting, that >task becomes an agenda item to discuss. > >Rob Sandelin >Sharingwood Community >Northwest Intentional Communities Association >Planning our first inter-community kids festival this spring! > > > > >------------------------------ > >End of COHOUSING-L Digest 723 >***************************** Andrew B. King internet.com LLC andrew [at] internet.com http://www.internet.com Managing Editor 2020 Hogback Rd. STE #4 http://www.webreference.com Ann Arbor, MI 48105 http://www.coolcentral.com (734) 971-7906 v (734) 975-9184 x
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