Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Moving back from concensus?

[Martie Weatherly (mhweatherly]

This is the program I am developing in answer to communities looking for help 
with making consensus work the way it is designed. I have done a lot of work 
introducing people to consensus but now there seem to be a lot of communities 
with challenges to keep it going.

I am adding a page to my website about Hassle Free Consensus that Sticks - to 
be up in a few days.  It will include the most common pitfalls which seem to be 
what I read most on cohoL. 

Glad to give you any more info if you want. 

Martie Weatherly

Health and Wellness Coach
Facilitation Coach
coachmartie.com


-----Original Message-----
>From: Lyn Deardorff <lynpeachtree [at] outlook.com>
>Sent: Dec 18, 2020 7:13 AM
>To: Martie Weatherly <martiew [at] earthlink.net>, "cohousing-l [at] 
>cohousing.org" <cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org>
>Subject: Re: [C-L]_ Moving back from concensus?
>
>Martie Weatherly, is there a source for "Hassle Free consensus that Sticks"  
>or is this to be your creation next year?
>
>Lyn Deardorff
>Santa Fe, NM
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Cohousing-L <cohousing-l-bounces+lynpeachtree=hotmail.com [at] 
>cohousing.org> On Behalf Of Martie Weatherly
>Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 11:18 AM
>To: cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org
>Subject: Re: [C-L]_ Moving back from concensus?
>
>Fascinating discussion about the challenges of consensus. 
>
>I think the biggest pitfalls are not learning about or putting up with too 
>much minutiae in meetings and not tightening up the consensus process so that 
>it works. 
>
>Bryan said it perfectly on another post about his community that "tortured 
>ourselves to try to accommodate folks who refused to be accommodated."
>
>I am taking on in 2021 supporting Hassle Free Consensus that Sticks for 
>cohousing communities. Check out my website as I update it. Glad to continue 
>this conversation at any time!
>
>Martie Weatherly
>Frederick, MD
>
>Consensus Coach
>https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.coachmartie.com%2F&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C23399feb49e045af601008d8a2b8166f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637438258854836660%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=dy9ZguCBfmhzn0DQA7LR8QLuN94iu3VSxiCV9CETd8A%3D&amp;reserved=0
>301-538-6811 cell - text is best
>martiew319 [at] gmail.com
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Mariana Almeida via Cohousing-L <cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org>
>>Sent: Dec 15, 2020 2:28 PM
>>To: Cohousing-L <cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org>, R Philip Dowds 
>><rphilipdowds [at] me.com>
>>Cc: Mariana Almeida <missmgrrl [at] yahoo.com>
>>Subject: Re: [C-L]_ Moving back from concensus?
>>
>>This struck a nerve, Philip: "But that investment of time and empathy 
>>may be unaffordable to many ordinary members - the ones who are unwilling to 
>>meet each week, month after month, to find a place to build a bicycle shed." 
>>This is also my experience with consensus in Berkeley Cohousing after 17 
>>years. Consensus creates conditions where the most conservative opinion is 
>>the one that wins out. Inertia settles in. Long standing logjams happen. Only 
>>the most determined people can get a proposal through.
>>Witness: one year to get an online calendaring system to be agreed to 
>>and used. Five years (or was it 7?) to get a seismic improvement approved. 
>>Three proposals to get wifi in the common house and adjoining units. Policies 
>>that never made it: pet policy. We have no resale policy. No work share 
>>policy. No associate member policy.
>>People burn out (hi!) Nothing new gets done. People ignore the rules 
>>because they don't fit the circumstances anymore. We can't hope to get new 
>>rules out without blood, sweat, tears and so much talking. I have longed for 
>>something new and learned all about sociocracy. But to change from consensus, 
>>I'd have to devote way too much time.
>>Mariana
>>Berkeley CohousingAgenda committe and Common House Committe.
>> 
>>
>>    On Monday, December 14, 2020, 04:00:18 PM PST, R Philip Dowds via 
>> Cohousing-L <cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org> wrote:  
>> 
>> Sharon - After thirteen years living at Cornerstone, my experience is this:
>>
>>The official rules may appear to allow an organized minority to ram something 
>>to a hasty and premature conclusion despite the misgivings of many.  But in 
>>practice, this doesn't happen.  Most of my friends and neighbors are very 
>>wary of pushing too hard, of demanding a result that would rupture relations 
>>in the community.  Despite our efforts to "streamline" the consensus process, 
>>we still have a latent culture of, "Nothing new can happen, nothing can 
>>change, until everyone likes it."
>>
>>There's definitely a downside to the high level of deference extended by the 
>>majority to the minority.  The downside is all the proposals that never get 
>>proposed.  Only the most courageous, most determined and most persistent are 
>>willing to bring a "hard" proposal into plenary.  Thus we have rules we no 
>>longer follow, but cannot change.  And good ideas we never try.  Yes, I know 
>>that some consensus professionals maintain that if you invest enough time and 
>>good will, you can always find the compromise that everyone can "live with".  
>>But that investment of time and empathy may be unaffordable to many ordinary 
>>members - the ones who are unwilling to meet each week, month after month, to 
>>find a place to build a bicycle shed.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>RPD
>>
>>> On Dec 14, 2020, at 4:15 PM, Sharon Villines via Cohousing-L <cohousing-l 
>>> [at] cohousing.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 13, 2020, at 2:43 PM, R Philip Dowds via Cohousing-L <cohousing-l 
>>>> [at] cohousing.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> So officially, it's a maximum two month, three plenary process.
>>> 
>>> These kinds of limits make be uncomfortable. The objective of consensus is 
>>> to find a solution that works for everyone, not just some. How can anyone 
>>> know how long that will take? With limits to discussion it is very easy for 
>>> someone delay the decision until is forced to a vote. Limits create 
>>> opportunities to manipulate the process - to game the system.
>>> 
>>> If there is extensive good faith discussion at the beginning, before the 
>>> proposal comes to the full membership, gaming the system might be avoided.
>>> 
>>> But also as Philip says, decisions not made can also be paralysis which 
>>> must also be avoided. Moving forward if only by an inch is important the 
>>> life of the group.
>>> 
>>>> Please keep in mind that consensus is a process, not an outcome.  That is, 
>>>> consensus is a series of steps performed in an environment of attitudes. 
>>> 
>>> It seems to require constant reminders that consensus isn't just a vote; it 
>>> isn't just what happens on the final day when you declare consensus (or try 
>>> to declare consensus.) The consensus process and ultimately the decision 
>>> starts when the question/problem/suggestion is raised. The whole process is 
>>> the decision.
>>> 
>>> Sharon
>>> ----
>>> Sharon Villines
>>> Takoma Village Cohousing, Washington DC
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.takomavillage.org%2F&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C23399feb49e045af601008d8a2b8166f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637438258854836660%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=Yn4fJAl9HVN6jo1X6lhG6LAZD8k3nzbzIFAd0ODKlyY%3D&amp;reserved=0
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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