Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Secrecy vs Right to Privacy? Sharing vs Hiding?

[Kathleen Lowry (kathleenlowrylpcclmft]

Harmony, Very helpful. Thank you. 

> On Aug 1, 2022, at 5:56 AM, Harmony Klohr <harmony [at] klohr.com> wrote:
> 
> Sharon, you asked if others have noticed the sentiment increasing. I have
> lived in two Cohousing communities over a span of about 40 years, and I
> have not observed the sentiment increasing. We have had individuals in our
> community who have done things similar to the examples you’ve given. For
> example, we had a seller who would not coordinate with or even communicate
> with our Membership Team or the community at large to provide any
> information about the listing. Usually when this kind of thing occurs, it’s
> a reflection of that particular member feeling persistently alienated from
> the community. Sometimes it’s a reflection of that particular member not
> having a sense of accountability to the community. So, in my experience
> it’s less of a societal trend and more of a reflection of that individual’s
> experience of community living. And in many cases, it seems they became
> alienated within the community - or lacked a sense of accountability to the
> community - because they initially entered the community with less than
> informed or less than realistic expectations, and then found community life
> challenging or disappointing because of that. Our Membership Team does an
> admirable job of helping people become informed about community life, but
> sometimes there’s a gap in understanding that’s hard to bridge despite best
> efforts.
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 9:54 AM <cohousing-l-request [at] cohousing.org>
> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 12:54:19 -0400
>> From: Sharon Villines <sharon [at] sharonvillines.com>
>> To: Cohousing-L <cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org>
>> Subject: Re: [C-L]_ Secrecy vs Right to Privacy? Sharing vs Hiding?
>> Message-ID: <A1D48450-B0C9-4659-91E0-A4491E15ED2B [at] sharonvillines.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=utf-8
>> 
>> Thanks to Ann for posting a balancing view. I also had an off-line
>> discussion with Kathleen explaining the issues that arise in cohousing
>> since she is a newbie. She also has expertise in understanding
>> relationships and things like trust so her comments were very helpful.
>> 
>> I didn?t mean to infer that there is a huge crisis going on at Takoma
>> Village or even in the south wing of Takoma Village. I personally
>> experience it at Takoma Village but that doesn?t mean that Takoma Village
>> experiences it at all.
>> 
>> Ann is right in pointing out that I speak in hyperbole what people often
>> hear as literal. I?m speaking fiction and others speak facts. I argue that
>> fiction is truer than facts because the facts easily hide feelings?but I
>> have yet to win that argument. Ann and I are definitely friends and
>> regularly yell at each other over ground breaking decisions about commas
>> and majority voting since we often serve on policy making groups together.
>> 
>> One regular argument I have in cohousing is over forms. Some people like
>> life-on-a-form. Information on a form is organized and complete and easy to
>> file. I see forms as the scourge of bureaucracy and a means to avoid
>> talking to people ? to avoid collecting people information. (Read David
>> Graeber?s The Utopia of Rules. You can see how easy it is to live with me.
>> Fortunately I live alone in a highly populated summer beach town of
>> cohousing.)
>> 
>> My question was/is have people seen over the course of 10-20 years of
>> living in a cohousing community changes in how much people are willing to
>> share or think should be shared about things that affect the whole
>> community. Not ?should? be shared but what affects the neighbors and
>> co-owners if they don't know about them. Things like changing households ?
>> moving in, moving out, splitting up, etc. A change in the degree to which
>> they are aware or willing to be aware of what they do affects everyone.
>> Changes in the plumbing. Decisions to grind coffee in the bedroom when
>> people are sleeping on the other side of the wall? How a unit is described
>> in the local newspaper when it is for sale. What things are handed out
>> labelled with the community?s name is if the community approved them or
>> they represent the community in some way.
>> 
>> Topics like this quickly get isolated as emotional issues that can?t be
>> discussed on email. Firstly, any issue that is isolated as ?emotional" has
>> had all its other parameters stripped. Emotions are evoked by things that
>> are tangible and describable to which one has been exposed. Why not discuss
>> that? Why focus on the emotion as the ?real? issue?
>> 
>> Secondly, if it is an emotional issue, does it mean it can?t be discussed
>> in writing? In public? In a forum in which readership is not controlled?
>> That it can?t be discussed in a larger forum because it is a F2F issue? If
>> things that affect people F2F can only be discussed in a F2F setting, we
>> would have to close down writing. Close down any long distance
>> communication.
>> 
>> I?ve been rereading Piketty?s work on inequality and ideology. I don?t
>> encourage anyone else to read this second book because it is much too long
>> and repetitive but I find it very comforting. He is an optimist and as a
>> historian he is data-driven. He looks at the common knowledge about
>> countries and economies and then looks at the numbers. Given Covid and the
>> economic recession, you ask how could that be reassuring?
>> 
>> I find it reassuring that the issues are larger than the United States.
>> Larger than my city. The move to conservatism is global. What we see as our
>> own socio-economic problems are occurring almost everywhere. The forces are
>> larger than personalities or specific governance methods. There is a
>> movement toward radical conservatism in the form of autocratic governments
>> that is growing stronger all over western civilization. That doesn?t make
>> the truth of Donald Trump any less disturbing or threatening but it makes
>> it understandable. This isn?t a personality blip or ?personal issue?.
>> 
>> I probably shouldn?t find that reassuring ? that it is a problem even
>> larger than one person or even one society and therefore even less
>> controllable. But it does help understand the question as larger than a
>> particular community or a particular resales practice or requirement.
>> 
>> Takoma Village is very good shape and busy doing all the things cohousing
>> communities are expected to do. I?m just putting tiny issues in a larger
>> context ? and questioning if that context exists.
>> 
>> Sorry if that caused confusion.
>> 
>> Sharon
>> 
>> 
>>>> On Jul 29, 2022, at 9:14 PM, Ann Zabaldo <zabaldo [at] earthlink.net> 
>>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello all ?
>>> 
>>> As many of you know, Sharon is my neighbor here at Takoma Village in
>> Washington, DC.  She is a prolific contributor to this list.  She is also a
>> major contributor to our life here at TVC.
>>> 
>>> She is my friend.
>>> 
>>> And, as in all friendships, we have disagreements.  Sometimes ? several
>> concurrent ones.
>>> 
>>> Sharon?s post about issues of secrecy and privacy prompted me to
>> remember for myself that postings here on this list are the viewpoint of
>> one person.  And one person only:  the writer.  In all these posts we read
>> and respond to, we don?t know how others in the community view an issue.
>>> 
>>> It is easy to fall into assumptions with posts that are written with
>> certitude, confidence and even ? inquiry.  Exaggerations and terms such as
>> always, never, no one, everyone, etc. can give a mistaken impression about
>> a concern.  Etc., etc.
>>> 
>>> I?m not going to comment further on Sharon?s email as it is an issue
>> that does not lend itself to an email format, IMHO.
>>> 
>>> And, also, it?s Friday night ?
>>> 
>>> Best ?
>>> 
>>> Ann Zabaldo
>>> Takoma Village Cohousing
>>> Washington, DC
>>> Ex. Dir. & Mbr. Board of Directors
>>> Mid Atlantic Cohousing
>>> Principal, Cohousing Collaborative, LLC
>>> Falls Church, VA
>>> 202.546.4654
>>> zabaldo [at] earthlink.net
>>> 
>>> If I?m ever on Life Support unplug me.
>>> Then plug me back in.
>>> See if that works.  (T-shirt humor)
>>> 
>>> NOTE:  Please use zabaldo [at] earthlink.net for email.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Jul 29, 2022, at 2:04 PM, Sharon Villines via Cohousing-L <
>> cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I have been flummoxed recently by one or two stoutly stated claims that
>> information about sales and new residents does not have to be shared with
>> anyone except the Board because it is a violation of the right to privacy.
>> Sharing the asking price of a unit is unacceptable and no one?s business
>> unless they are making an offer. New resident information is made available
>> after the unit is sold, even after closing. It is confidential.
>>>> 
>>>> When we recently discussed the policy on architectural review and
>> worked on clarity about what needed review and what didn?t and how to
>> record this, right to privacy was raised. Who could see this information?
>> What right did people have to ask?
>>>> 
>>>> The legal question here is easier to answer ? by law the condominium
>> has to sign a document swearing that no changes to the unit have been done
>> that violate any of the condominium rules so it should have some protection
>> against liability. And if you start rearranging the plumbing it affects
>> this whole wing of the building. But where does this idea come from that
>> people want to keep everything secret and it has nothing to do with living
>> in a community?
>>>> 
>>>> Legally a condominium owner can sell to whomever they please within the
>> zoning codes, etc., but does that mean they should/could/can/might keep a
>> sale secret until someone notices they are moving out and someone else
>> seems to be moving in? Or no one is moving in and the unit seems empty?
>>>> 
>>>> But we have an exclusive rights in our bylaws so that the Association
>> can always purchase a unit rather than having it go up for auction. How do
>> we exercise this right if the sale is none of our business?
>>>> 
>>>> Certainly the community spirit of "we all in this together," "what you
>> do affects all of us," and "we can only do this if everyone is on board?
>> develops more strongly in the development phase when things are touch and
>> go. When units are selling for half a million dollars and there is a
>> bidding war, ?its my money? is a stronger argument than when everything is
>> at risk. But is it inevitable that selling units will be just like selling
>> houses on the open market?
>>>> 
>>>> Why would I want to live in cohousing if I wanted to do whatever I
>> pleased, no questions asked, and no information shared? And why would I
>> even live in a condominium ? a shared ownership scheme.
>>>> 
>>>> Is this sentiment increasing in other communities?
>>>> 
>>>> Sharon
>>>> ----
>>>> Sharon Villines
>>>> Takoma Village Cohousing, Washington DC
>>>> http://www.takomavillage.org
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>> 
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>> End of Cohousing-L Digest, Vol 222, Issue 25
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