Cohousing-L Mailing List: RE: Tolerance is not the same as politically correct

[Catya Belfer-Shevett (catya]

Heylo :)

> > > The Common House is almost complete and
> > > will be finished for Christmas.
> >
> >Not looking for religious diversity, eh? :)
> >
> >Seriously, though - i know i'm sensitive to this kind of thing
> (!), but so
> >might other potential buyers be.  How about.. "finished for the winter
> >holidays"?  "finished by the end of the year"? "finished for new years"?
>
> I kind of think people who are offended by this wouldn't be
> tolerant enough
> to live happily in a diverse community. This is simply a way of
> expressing
> a date that reflects the point of view of the speaker. It is not putting
> down anyone's religion. In fact, it doesn't even tell you the religion of
> the speaker, as I've heard non-Christians speak of something happening by
> Christmas. To assume anything about the speaker's attitudes towards other
> people, their religion, their culture, etc. is totally
> unjustified based on
> the statement. If you can't tell anything about the person, why
> take offense.

*chuckles* I had a brief and very pleasant exchange with the author of the
message offlist, but I'll also answer here.

Note the smileys in my initial message, for an indication of my tone of
voice, please :)

It is a way of expressing a date, but this is not casual speech or even an
email to a list.  This was an official announcement from a group about a lot
for sale.

For me, seeing that in an official announcement, I inferred all sorts of
things about the membership and mindset of the group, and i thought it was
probably worth pointing out.

And sure, in this culture I'm sure you've heard non-xians speak of things
happening by xmas - why wouldn't you?  Movies are advertised that way,
school breaks are titled that way (less so these days), never mind the
malls - it's a national holiday.

That doesn't mean that it's a non-xian-friendly way of doing things, and
most cohousing groups want to be friendly to more than just xians. :)

> I know some people think tolerance means policing their speech so that it
> contains nothing that could possibly offend anyone, but I don't agree. I
> think it means accepting the rights of others to have their own point of
> view, culture, beliefs, etc. It doesn't mean everyone has to censor who
> they are to the lowest common denominator. If I say by Christmas, and my
> friend says by Ramadan, that's fine with both of us. If I don't know when
> Ramadan starts, I'll ask my friend. If my friend doesn't know when
> Christmas is, she'll ask me. No offense taken on either side, and perhaps
> some learning.

Again, I think there's a difference between speech and advertising.  If you
saw a poster saying a group would be done with something by the end of
Ramadan, what would you assume about the group?  I'd assume that Ramadan was
the major, or only, holiday celebrated in this season for that group.  Not a
good thing, or a bad thing, but that's what I would read from the statement.

Let me give you another example, just for fun.  If I saw something that said
"These units are perfect for married couples" (I'm making this up), I'd
assume some things about the group in terms of their acceptance of same-sex
couples and of unmarried couples.  Using the more generic "These units are
perfect for two people" or even "These units are perfect for couples", has a
different implication.  (leaving out entirely people who are in
relationships of more than 2 people, but that's another topic!). Does this
make sense?

> In my experience, people can be politically correct without feeling true
> tolerance, and people can be truly tolerant without being politically
> correct. I really enjoy diversity, including differences in expression.

Sure - people can be pc without being tolerant and vv.  On the other hand,
if one is expressing oneself in email, and one wants to get across that one
is tolerant, using tolerant language is probably a good start.

(I'm not a big fan of "tolerant", myself, or of "politically correct" but
that's another story also.)

>  >>> It's not a question of being offended - I mostly wasn't. But
> it didn't
> make it sound like a place that I would want to live, so i figured it was
> worth mentioning :) <<<
>
> LOL - and I had just the opposite thought - I would be wary of a place
> where everyone has to be careful of what they say and how they say it for
> fear of offending someone.

*chuckles* me too.  I'd rather live in a place where people -want- to be
care-full in how they speak.

but regardless, that's not at all what i was trying to point up :)  I'm sure
if the post had said "by the end of the year", you wouldn't have said "oh my
god! why didn't they say christmas! would i want to live there?!"

With apologies to the author of the original post, for dissecting further,

        - catya

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