Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: guns and cigarettes

[Ann Zabaldo (zabaldo]

Just throwing in my 2 cents here...I live in the same community w/ Anna.  I
totally support her statement about not consensing on policies until you
move in.  And to add to her statement...it's most important that you have
lots n' lots of conversations about these various issues.  It's very
important to learn where you and your neighbors stand on certain values.
For me, the remarkable thing is...once I'm aware of what my neighbor's needs
are I can support them w/out having a policy.  My experience is that good
communication forstalls the need of a paper policy.

Um.  I'm wondering how guns could be forbidden in a cohousing community -- I
mean in the by laws  -- as it's a 4th Amendment right.  (I'm not taking a
position here -- I'm just trying to figure out how this could be legally
done.)  And, would you really want to do this?  If, somehow, you DID forbid
guns in the community that would mean that all law enforcement folks would
be restricted as they are required to carry a weapon.  Of course, maybe
cohousers don't want police, DEA, Immigration, and military people in our
communities.  We have three military households in TVC (soon to be just 2!)
I would hate it if we had a policy restricting them from living here.

Anyway... just a few extra thoughts on a late Friday afternoon.

Ann Zabaldo

Takoma Village Cohousing
Washington, DC. -- America's
Hometown!
zabaldo [at] earthlink.net

----- Original Message -----
From: <aamato [at] worldbank.org>
To: <cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org>
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 4:53 PM
Subject: RE: [C-L]_guns and cigarettes


>
> Dear Comrades in Cohousing,
> My (strongly felt!)  overall suggestion is not to make any policies until
the
> issue comes up. Just thinking about consensing on a policy that would
cover all
> the possible theoretical situations imaginative cohousers come up with
scares me
> to death!  So unless you have a smoker or a gun-owner already amongst you
I
> would put it off indefinitely.  We made some policies before we moved in
and had
> to change them once reality hit.
>
> We have no gun policy and no one has ever brought it up.  For all I know,
half
> my cohousing neighbors could have guns.
>
> Re: smoking, Takoma Village,  like the rest, does not allow smoking in the
> Common House but people can smoke outside and in their homes, as long as
they
> don't litter the area with cigarette butts  (which a recent guest did do).
I
> don't remember any formal consensed upon policy.  It just seemed like the
thing
> to do, so we did.    I have a next door neighbor who sneaks a few puffs on
her
> back balcony occasionally and the smell wafts into my unit.  Ironically,
she
> thinks no one knows she still smokes!  But I love her dearly (and won't
tell her
> secret!) and wouldn't  think of asking for some sort of moratorium from
the
> community.  I will just live with the occasional inconvenience.
>
> Re: an opening to talk to your neighbor about their gun.  Too bad you
don't live
> here in Washington DC., where we just had the sniper hold the region
hostage for
> 3 weeks!    Believe me, guns are on everyone's minds here, and our local
> councilman is putting up legislation for the District of Columbia to
endorse a
> national firearms database.
>
> Well, that's it. We at Takoma Village will be off to the Peace March
Saturday
> morning down at the Vietnam Veterans memorial.  Hope a lot of you
cohousers will
> join us in spirit!
> Anna Amato
> Takoma Village
> Washington, DC
> (also the home of famous countributors to this listserve, Ann Zabaldo and
Sharon
> Villines.)
>
>
>
>
>                     Casey Morrigan
>                     <cjmorr [at] pacbell.net>         To:
Cohousing-L [at] Cohousing.Org
>                     Sent by:                     cc:
>                     cohousing-l-admin@coh        Subject:     RE:
[C-L]_guns and cigarettes
>                     ousing.org
>
>
>                     10/25/2002 03:50 PM
>                     Please respond to
>                     cohousing-l
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> We had a big discussion before move-in.  Most of us didn't want guns "on
> campus" at all.  One household anonymously revealed they had a gun, one
> household was "out" about having a gun.  The "out about the gun" household
> member had been assaulted in the past, and kept a loaded gun by the bed
> every night.  Our CCR's don't forbid guns but they do require that they be
> stored securely and may even require trigger locking mechanisms.   The
> irony, of course, is that we are surrounded by neighbors in a
> semi-rural/semi urban area (you'd have to know Sebastopol to know that
both
> are true - Rosewind knows what I mean cuz it is sort of similar)  who, for
> all we know, are bristling with guns and we'd never know.  Anyway, most of
> us were really concerned about the gun household but couldn't figure out a
> way to forbid it and didn't want to change the CCR's over it.  I have no
> idea whether that household still does that.  Yes, they have kid(s) in the

> house. I figure if I want to know about the gun, I need to go ask, but I
am
> waiting for the right time, perhaps just the right atmosphere...(right
after
> a common-house showing of a spaghetti western????) .you know how you save
up
> something that is tough to talk about, hoping that the right opportunity
> will present itself.  I find my capacity for denial is amazingly high and
I
> just don't want to think about it.  Like I hope that family's smoke alarm
> doesn't go off in the middle of the night, or their burglar alarm for that
> matter, nor would I want to wak them up too early (joke).
>
> Most of us treasure the non-smoking nature of our site, but we don't have
> rules forbidding it.  My next-door  neighbor sublet to a couple ciggie
> smokers one month and their smoke definitely drifted into our house
through
> summer-open windows.  The neighbor had made it a condition of sublet that
> they not smoke in the house or on site so she reminded them of it and they
> sullenly stopped. One other permanent neighbor loves cigars for
celebrations
> and will smoke them in and near their house sometimes.  Not often enough
or
> close enough to me to bug me.  But with the Giants so close to clinching
the
> World Series I do sense another round of cigars coming up.
>
> Casey Morrigan
> Two Acre Wood, Sebastopol, California
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cohousing-l-admin [at] cohousing.org
> [mailto:cohousing-l-admin [at] cohousing.org]On Behalf Of Elizabeth Stevenson
> Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 11:21 PM
> To: cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org
> Subject: Re: [C-L]_guns and cigarettes
>
>
> We issue a hunting rifle and handgun to every new family, with a coupon
for
> a carton of cigs as a little housewarming gift.
>
> Uh, just kidding. I don't remember if we ever had a gun policy. (David?) I
> know we talked about it before we moved in, but we must have agreed not to
> allow them, or I'd remember an argument about it. I am fairly certain
nobody
> here owns one. In other parts of the country, it's more if a sticky
wicket.
> I'm sure someone will chime in-wasn't there a group in NC that had a big
> issue over this?
>
> As for smoking, it is not allowed in the common house. We have no smokers
> currently, but have had a few in the past.  People are. of course, free to
> do as they please in their own homes. Smoking is allowed outside, contrary
> to some members faulty memories, but it is so rare that sometimes people
are
> startled by it. We often have outside groups come into the community to
use
> the CH, and there was at least one instance of a member chastising a
visitor
> for smoking after someone here had said it was ok. That was embarrassing.
> The majority of us feel that it is far more important for guests to feel
> comfortable than worry about the rare instance of outdoor smoking.
>
> I was going to make another gun joke, but the first one was a bit much in
> the current climate. I'll just sign off.
>
> --
> Liz Stevenson
> Southside Park Cohousing
> Sacramento, California
> tamgoddess [at] attbi.com
>
> > From: Rosa Leah <rosa [at] homeport.org>
> > Reply-To: cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org
> > Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 13:15:51 -0400 (EDT)
> > To: <cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org>
> > Subject: [C-L]_guns and cigarettes
> >
> > My cohousing community is in the process of working towards have a set
of
> > policies/guidelines that will apply once we've moved in.  We just
finished
> > a pet policy, and we're now starting to think about guns (or, more
> > broadly, weapons?) and cigarettes.  We'll be doing each of these
> > separately, even if they'll all be addressed by the BATF if it ever
comes
> > up in a federal context :)
> >
> > I'd like to know what kinds of policies and guidelines other groups have
> > developed along these lines?
> >
> > Thanks muchly!
> > Rosa Carson
> > Mosaic Commons, west of Boston
> > <http://www.mosaic-commons.org/>
> >
> > And why should night and day be so radically divided?
> > Is there anyone for whom loving and thinking
> > are lived as different beginnings?
> > Would I have to spend my days with the one and my nights with the other?
> > -- Luce Irigaray
> >
> >
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