Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Energy demand is the problem - Rip offs

[Racheli Gai (racheli]

Norm,
You might be right - if what we're paying is the true price of the  
product.  However, much of the costs are "externalized", and are being
paid by us in other ways, including the wars we wage, destruction of  
ecosystems and climate chaos, etc.  Do we really want it and think
it's a fair price? - Not me, and I'm not that unique that way :)

Racheli.

On Jul 15, 2011, at 4:40 PM, Norman Gauss wrote:

> Ripping us off can be alleged if we believe that the absolutely  
> essential
> product we are buying is not worth the money we pay for it.
>
> A century ago traveling medicine men would hawk their get-well-quick  
> elixirs
> from the backs of wagons to unsuspecting people.  Much of the time  
> these
> concoctions were just mixtures of alcohol, sugar and a little  
> flavoring.
> Most of them were rip offs.
>
> But if competing oil companies sell their gasoline to drivers who shop
> around and get the performance they expect, it can hardly be  
> regarded as a
> rip off.  Whoever can sell similar products the cheapest gets most  
> of the
> business.  It's called the market, and Adam Smith wrote how  
> efficiently
> products can be made and sold in a free market.
>
> Norm Gauss
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darien [mailto:darien [at] cruzio.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 2:00 PM
> To: Cohousing-L
> Subject: Re: [C-L]_ Energy demand is the problem - Big Oil
>
>
> Certainly there is intent to make large profits. Where is the boundary
> between large profits and ripping us off?
>
> Darien Payne
>
> On Jul 15, 2011, at 12:09 PM, Norman Gauss wrote:
>
> > We already have an alternative way to generate energy, nuclear power
> > plants.
> > But, as we have learned, there is a downside to that technology.
> >
> > New technologies that Big Oil is using include greater ability to
> > drill deeper and farther out into the water.  The humongous expense  
> > of
> > getting the oil out of these hard-to-reach places is the end result  
> > of
> > Big Oil trying harder and harder to find and extract more oil.  When
> > this type of activity declines (it will because it is mining, and all
> > mines eventually decline), gasoline will begin to skyrocket in price.
> > Enjoy the cheap gasoline now because the forecast is for a leveling
> > off and decline of oil supply in the years ahead.
> >
> > Do you believe that there is a conspiracy to rip us off?
> >
> > Norm Gauss
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Karen Carlson [mailto:kcarlson2 [at] wisc.edu]
> > Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 11:11 AM
> > To: Cohousing-L
> > Subject: Re: [C-L]_ Energy demand is the problem
> >
> >
> > Super huge profits and super huge subsidies obviously haven't
> > motivated Big Oil to invest in new technologies --unless it's still
> > another carbon- based form (e.g. fracking).  If non-carbon based,
> > sustainable technologies were on the same playing field as Big Oil,
> > they could jointly produce far more energy then we've been lead to
> > believe.  How is it that some cities and countries of Europe are
> > already well down the path of becoming independent of carbon-based
> > fuels?
> >
> > Given the unending handouts to Big Oil, how can other forms of energy
> > compete? To level the playing field, we should consider taxing
> > carbon-based fuel as it comes out of the ground or crosses the  
> > boarder
> > and return all the tax money to citizens.  This plan (carbon fee &
> > dividend) would off set the additional cost of fuels to poorer
> > citizens and it would build political will to develop new
> > technologies.  It would also satisfy the politicians who have  
> > signed a
> > "no new taxes" pledge.
> >
> > Karen Carlson
> > Arboretum Cohousing Community
> > Madison WI
> >
> > On 7/15/11 12:02 PM, Norman Gauss wrote:
> > > Has it ever occurred to the critics of Big Oil that the profits made
> > > by Big Oil may benefit you and me because they can be used for
> > > exploration and development of new technologies so that we can have
> > > more
> > cheap gasoline?
> > > With lower profits, energy companies are less able to invest in new
> > > technologies and to explore for new fossil fuel deposits.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Norm Gauss
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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