Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Cohousing-L Digest, Vol 246, Issue 30

[lisa pletka (lisampletka]

Wow! Thanks for the outpouring of feedback I received to my inquiry about
co-housing pet rules/policies. All of your feedback is much appreciated. I
see that pets can be a joyous, but also emotional, fraught and contentious
issue. I'm going to buckle my seat belt for an interesting ride, as we
re-craft our pet policy at Santa Rosa Creek Commons!
Best wishes to all -- Lisa Pletka

On Tue, Jul 30, 2024 at 9:07 AM <cohousing-l-request [at] cohousing.org> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. need feedback re community pet policies (lisa pletka)
>    2. Drama triangles in cohousing (Fred-List manager)
>    3. Re: need feedback re community pet policies (Bonnie Fergusson)
>    4. Re: need feedback re community pet policies (Yochai Gal)
>    5. Re: need feedback re community pet policies (Sarah Lesher)
>    6. Re: need feedback re community pet policies (Elizabeth Magill)
>    7. Re: need feedback re community pet policies (PAMELA LEITCH)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2024 19:23:33 -0700
> From: lisa pletka <lisampletka [at] gmail.com>
> To: Cohousing-L [at] cohousing.org
> Subject: [C-L]_ need feedback re community pet policies
> Message-ID:
>         <CAKwF97ihmqv+0zrXkU4s+0OH=
> RseJP1UWRFSTpRPETFK8EyDbA [at] mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
>  Hello, co-housers
> I am a fairly new member at Santa Rosa Creek Commons, a limited equity
> intentional community in Santa Rosa, CA. Our community is now 42 years old,
> and there has been some contention around pets and how many are allowed on
> our campus. (Our long-standing policy permits only 4 dogs and 8 cats on a
> campus housing 35-40 people.) I am serving on an ad hoc committee to
> re-evaluate our pet policy.
>
> I would really appreciate hearing from other co-housing communities about
> the pet policies that work for you. Specifically, do you set a limit for
> the number of animals allowed per household or in the community as a whole?
> Plus any other restrictions you think are important.
>
> Thanks in advance for your feedback -- Lisa Pletka
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2024 07:51:38 -0500 (CDT)
> From: Fred-List manager <fholson [at] cohousing.org>
> To: Cohousing-L mailing list <cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org>
> Subject: [C-L]_ Drama triangles in cohousing
> Message-ID: <51ce602a-d97-fc8b-040-8bc7519885c [at] cohousing.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Petra Martin <petra [at] petramartin.com>
> is the author of the message below.  It was posted by Fred of
> the Cohousing-L management team <cohousing-l-owner [at] cohousing.org>
> due to a format problem ( Content-Type: multipart/related )
> Please avoid this format in Cohousing-L posts. (and html only format)
>
> Cohousing-L does not distributed images and attachments
> In this case the images included did illustrate the ideas so I
> described the in words below.
>
> Fred
>
> --------------------  FORWARDED MESSAGE FOLLOWS --------------------
>
> Have any of you ever realized that you're dealing with a drama triangle
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpman_drama_triangle> in your
> communities?
> (We seem to be stuck in one, and I just learned about this model.)
>
> [image: (point down triangle with corners labeled:"Persecutor - Rescuer -
> Victim]
>
> And have any of you learned about and applied its antidote, The Empowerment
> Dynamic <https://theempowermentdynamic.com/about/> (TED), or a similar
> solution in your community? (The victim transitions to the role creator,
> persecutor transitions to challenger, rescuer to coach.)
>
> [image: (point up triangle ("TED") with corners labeled:
> "Creator - Challenger - Coach" ]
>
> I am tempted to start a TED book club
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/0996871802?psc=1
>
> Petra Martin
> Fifth Street Commons
> 360.202.7403
> *WhatsApp* <https://wa.me/13602027403>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2024 14:21:45 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Bonnie Fergusson <fergyb2 [at] yahoo.com>
> To: <cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org>,  <Cohousing-L [at] cohousing.org>
> Subject: Re: [C-L]_ need feedback re community pet policies
> Message-ID: <1642774382.843929.1722349305895 [at] mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> ? ? ?Pets are a frequently controversial topic in Cohousing communities.
> ?Our policy here which is working so far is that there is no limit on pets
> but none are allowed in the Common House (due to allergies) and all
> dogs?must be on a leash or under good voice command in the presence of
> their owners (depends on how well trained the animal is?we have one elderly
> choweenie who is totally socialized, and unthreatening who is pretty much
> always off leash; the rest of the dogs are always leashed when outside on
> our premises.?The cats are not allowed in the garden because their poop was
> a problem for the Garden Committee folks, although there are feral cats who
> gain access so I don?t know how useful that rule is. ?Cats are only allowed
> outside in the presence of their owners who keep an eye on them. ?In theory
> no pooping or peeing is allowed in the garden area and of course owners are
> required to clean up any accidents.? ? ?Good luck in working out rules that
> work for your community.Bonnie
>  FergussonSwans Market CohousingOakland, CA
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad
>
>
> On Tuesday, July 30, 2024, 5:04 AM, lisa pletka <lisampletka [at] gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>  Hello, co-housers
> I am a fairly new member at Santa Rosa Creek Commons, a limited equity
> intentional community in Santa Rosa, CA. Our community is now 42 years old,
> and there has been some contention around pets and how many are allowed on
> our campus. (Our long-standing policy permits only 4 dogs and 8 cats on a
> campus housing 35-40 people.) I am serving on an ad hoc committee to
> re-evaluate our pet policy.
>
> I would really appreciate hearing from other co-housing communities about
> the pet policies that work for you. Specifically, do you set a limit for
> the number of animals allowed per household or in the community as a whole?
> Plus any other restrictions you think are important.
>
> Thanks in advance for your feedback -- Lisa Pletka
> _________________________________________________________________
> Cohousing-L mailing list -- Unsubscribe, archives and other info at:
> http://L.cohousing.org/info
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2024 10:30:49 -0400
> From: Yochai Gal <yochaigal [at] gmail.com>
> To: cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org
> Subject: Re: [C-L]_ need feedback re community pet policies
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAFmGPcJ_9EEy8UvUre7S_bt37_nkmk8gabW_d2M0o7wdjObcZA [at] mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Our community (Rocky Hill Cohousing) developed a pet policy a few years ago
> that seems to have worked pretty well.
> I've "sanitized" our policy here for public consumption here
> <
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bnmu4fMAXqdsiRWr0nLFGZl9-KqSbJ3tS49xrbrbJ3Q/edit?usp=sharing
> >.
> Hopefully it is helpful to someone.
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 30, 2024 at 8:04?AM lisa pletka <lisampletka [at] gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>
> >  Hello, co-housers
> > I am a fairly new member at Santa Rosa Creek Commons, a limited equity
> > intentional community in Santa Rosa, CA. Our community is now 42 years
> old,
> > and there has been some contention around pets and how many are allowed
> on
> > our campus. (Our long-standing policy permits only 4 dogs and 8 cats on a
> > campus housing 35-40 people.) I am serving on an ad hoc committee to
> > re-evaluate our pet policy.
> >
> > I would really appreciate hearing from other co-housing communities about
> > the pet policies that work for you. Specifically, do you set a limit for
> > the number of animals allowed per household or in the community as a
> whole?
> > Plus any other restrictions you think are important.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for your feedback -- Lisa Pletka
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Cohousing-L mailing list -- Unsubscribe, archives and other info at:
> > http://L.cohousing.org/info
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2024 10:36:47 -0400
> From: Sarah Lesher <sarah.lesher [at] gmail.com>
> To: cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org
> Subject: Re: [C-L]_ need feedback re community pet policies
> Message-ID:
>         <CAJ9RZX=
> p8sD22Q_wa_eQnthqH1QVyPe1n10JSd1m2-4ym1E3ig [at] mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> No limit on the number of pets.
>
> Picking up poop is an ongoing major issue, since at least one, actually two
> dogs, runs pretty much at will or with very little supervision.  I'm tired
> of being suspected and threaten to color my dogs' excrement by feeding them
> food coloring (with glitter!  Said to be harmless).  But I haven't so far,
> though I bought in four colors!
>
> Other dogs are always on leash or (including mine) heavily supervised on
> common property.
>
> But we have almost 10 acres; three of them where all dogs run free left
> wild (because they can be flooded by the adjacent creek in extreme storms).
> Cats are officially indoors but periodically escape! mild dramas about
> recovering them but not about the fact that they are outdoors.
>
> Even though dogs are supposedly not allowed in the common house, one is.
> Hard to explain. Not an allergy question.  A service dog, standard poodle,
> less allergenic, is of course allowed in.
>
> Sarah Lesher, resident of but not speaking for Cantine's Island,
> Saugerties, NY
>
> On Tue, Jul 30, 2024 at 8:04?AM lisa pletka <lisampletka [at] gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>
> >  Hello, co-housers
> > I am a fairly new member at Santa Rosa Creek Commons, a limited equity
> > intentional community in Santa Rosa, CA. Our community is now 42 years
> old,
> > and there has been some contention around pets and how many are allowed
> on
> > our campus. (Our long-standing policy permits only 4 dogs and 8 cats on a
> > campus housing 35-40 people.) I am serving on an ad hoc committee to
> > re-evaluate our pet policy.
> >
> > I would really appreciate hearing from other co-housing communities about
> > the pet policies that work for you. Specifically, do you set a limit for
> > the number of animals allowed per household or in the community as a
> whole?
> > Plus any other restrictions you think are important.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for your feedback -- Lisa Pletka
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Cohousing-L mailing list -- Unsubscribe, archives and other info at:
> > http://L.cohousing.org/info
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2024 10:47:26 -0400
> From: Elizabeth Magill <pastorlizm [at] gmail.com>
> To: cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org
> Cc: Bonnie Fergusson <fergyb2 [at] yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [C-L]_ need feedback re community pet policies
> Message-ID:
>         <CAEiam=+sq2h9TX=
> wOByvGGt10ttTPH+-aFW22qEYSEGCh0f+8A [at] mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> We tried to rework our policy twice. The first time simply didn't get
> anywhere.
> When it was revised a few people went and worked out details with the
> people who strongly disagreed with each other, trying to get at what was
> each individual's issue and how could the community support them.
>
> The end result is dogs are to be on a leash or under voice control
> and we can have 9 (or some small number) of outdoor cats.
> The limit on the number of outdoor cats works well.
> The dog thing--well my definition of "under voice control" and a dog
> owner's definition do not match closely.
> We also have a second coho community right on the property and they have
> more lenient policies so sometimes it seems all for naught.
>
> One thing we added is that all dog owners are responsible for cleaning up
> random poop
> and all outdoor cat owners take care of cat poop, dead mice, and dead birds
> left in the community.
> We have an email list that goes to those owners.
>
> In the end I think it works fine.
>
> -Liz
> (The Rev. Dr.) Elizabeth Mae Magill
> Pastor, Ashburnham Community Church
> Minister to the Affiliates, Ecclesia Ministries
> www.elizabethmaemagill.com
> 508-450-0431
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 30, 2024 at 10:22?AM Bonnie Fergusson via Cohousing-L <
> cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org> wrote:
>
> >      Pets are a frequently controversial topic in Cohousing communities.
> > Our policy here which is working so far is that there is no limit on pets
> > but none are allowed in the Common House (due to allergies) and all
> > dogs must be on a leash or under good voice command in the presence of
> > their owners (depends on how well trained the animal is?we have one
> elderly
> > choweenie who is totally socialized, and unthreatening who is pretty much
> > always off leash; the rest of the dogs are always leashed when outside on
> > our premises. The cats are not allowed in the garden because their poop
> was
> > a problem for the Garden Committee folks, although there are feral cats
> who
> > gain access so I don?t know how useful that rule is.  Cats are only
> allowed
> > outside in the presence of their owners who keep an eye on them.  In
> theory
> > no pooping or peeing is allowed in the garden area and of course owners
> are
> > required to clean up any accidents.     Good luck in working out rules
> that
> > work for your community.Bonnie FergussonSwans Market CohousingOakland, CA
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad
> >
> >
> > On Tuesday, July 30, 2024, 5:04 AM, lisa pletka <lisampletka [at] gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >  Hello, co-housers
> > I am a fairly new member at Santa Rosa Creek Commons, a limited equity
> > intentional community in Santa Rosa, CA. Our community is now 42 years
> old,
> > and there has been some contention around pets and how many are allowed
> on
> > our campus. (Our long-standing policy permits only 4 dogs and 8 cats on a
> > campus housing 35-40 people.) I am serving on an ad hoc committee to
> > re-evaluate our pet policy.
> >
> > I would really appreciate hearing from other co-housing communities about
> > the pet policies that work for you. Specifically, do you set a limit for
> > the number of animals allowed per household or in the community as a
> whole?
> > Plus any other restrictions you think are important.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for your feedback -- Lisa Pletka
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Cohousing-L mailing list -- Unsubscribe, archives and other info at:
> > http://L.cohousing.org/info
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Cohousing-L mailing list -- Unsubscribe, archives and other info at:
> > http://L.cohousing.org/info
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2024 09:06:44 -0700
> From: PAMELA LEITCH <info [at] hoacoaching.com>
> To: cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org
> Subject: Re: [C-L]_ need feedback re community pet policies
> Message-ID: <9D27CFD9-8C62-4365-8FE0-E9FD65BC7162 [at] hoacoaching.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=utf-8
>
> Lisa,
>
> My Oregon community has restrictions in our Bylaws- max of 4 pets per
> unit, only 2 can be dogs.  Cats must be indoor cats unless on a leash.
>
> Any new restrictions on pets needs to be more than a policy; you will
> likely need at least a Board resolution or possibly a Bylaw change.
> California is a highly regulated state for condos and HOAs but I am not
> sure what a limited equity community is from California?s perspective.
> Also be aware of Federal, State and local Fair Housing Laws.  (ADA does not
> apply to most housing).  There are service animals trained to do specific
> tasks and then there are emotional support animals; neither of which are
> legally pets. It is possible to get a pet reclassified as an emotional
> support animal.
>
> An animal with one of these designations could require you to let the
> animal into common space and exceed any restrictions on the # of animals. A
> violation is not something you want to have happen because the feds and the
> state are not tolerant of non-compliance by an HOA.
>
>
> Pam Leitch, JD, CMCA
> HOA Coaching, LLC
> hoacoaching.com <http://hoacoaching.com/>
>
> > On Jul 28, 2024, at 7:23 PM, lisa pletka <lisampletka [at] gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hello, co-housers
> > I am a fairly new member at Santa Rosa Creek Commons, a limited equity
> > intentional community in Santa Rosa, CA. Our community is now 42 years
> old,
> > and there has been some contention around pets and how many are allowed
> on
> > our campus. (Our long-standing policy permits only 4 dogs and 8 cats on a
> > campus housing 35-40 people.) I am serving on an ad hoc committee to
> > re-evaluate our pet policy.
> >
> > I would really appreciate hearing from other co-housing communities about
> > the pet policies that work for you. Specifically, do you set a limit for
> > the number of animals allowed per household or in the community as a
> whole?
> > Plus any other restrictions you think are important.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for your feedback -- Lisa Pletka
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Cohousing-L mailing list -- Unsubscribe, archives and other info at:
> > http://L.cohousing.org/info
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Cohousing-L mailing list -- Unsubscribe, archives and other info at:
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Cohousing-L Digest, Vol 246, Issue 30
> ********************************************
>