Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Cohousing vs "traditional" self-managed community

[Lisa Kuntz (lisa.kuntz]

It seems like an extreme response to me.

Well-stated:  " laws that are supposedly trying to enforce people
being inclusive and welcoming.  :-| "



On Fri, Jun 13, 2025 at 6:01 AM Mac Thomson <macthomson [at] mac.com> wrote:

> Lisa,
>
> Wow. Sorry to hear your FH story.
>
> Like I’d imagine most cohousing communities to be, we are very inclusive
> and welcoming. I’m thankful that we haven’t had issues with the laws that
> are supposedly trying to enforce people being inclusive and welcoming.  :-|
>
> --
> Mac Thomson
>
> Heartwood Cohousing
> Southwest Colorado
> http://www.heartwoodcohousing.com
>
>
> “You can have everything in life you want, if you will just help other
> people get what they want."
>         - Zig Ziglar
> **********************************************************
>
>
>
> On Jun 12, 2025, at 6:19 PM, Lisa Kuntz <lisa.kuntz [at] 
> daybreakcohousing.org>
> wrote:
>
> That is an excellent question, Mac. I  appreciate the use of the word
> "sanction" rather than lawsuit or complaint.
>
> As I understand it, if a formal complaint were lodged the complaint would
> be investigated and suggestions made.  There wouldn't be a monetary
> assessment against the community, which seems to be a great source of
> anxiety and fear. There would be the opportunity for self-correction.
>
> Recently, another member suggested that the “honorable” thing for me to do
> was step down from my role on Membership Team in giving tours and/or
> contact with the public for mistakes I have made IN THE PAST.  A couple who
> moved  here three years ago knew so little about cohousing that they were
> outraged that we had  an informal interview/”vetting”  process. They
> learned about FH laws and have used them to scrutinize past messages and
> comments over the years to the point where it felt to me as though FH were
> being weaponized!
>
> The member insisted that the Membership Team committed “flagrant
> violations,” which seems a bit inflammatory to me. That is different from
> “taking responsibility for.” The couple have achieved their goal of having
> only formal realtor-type tours by recruiting a cohort of like minded
> residents to form a FH team to educate the community. From my perspective,
> they went to extremes to eliminate any informal/casual dialogue when
> showing potential residents the complex. Instead of modifying the current
> conversational interview/tour to ensure that we were FHA compliant, the
> Membership Team eliminated it under pressure from the new FH team.
>
> My view is that many of the "errors" I made are subject to interpretation.
> There is a belief that because our Membership Team had a one-hour video
> orientation presented by FH of Oregon, myself and others should know how to
> navigate making full disclosure of what future residents can expect while
> remaining in compliance with FHA.  I think that takes practice, yet I was
> informed that I should have known better.
>
> Our website was deemed to be acceptable by FH of Oregon, but it is
> nevertheless being revised. I think lawyers will be brought into the
> picture to scrutinize any new documents or processes that involve
> interaction with potential residents
>
>  The FH study team created an internal FH Concern Response Procedure where
> residents can submit concerns. Three “neutral” residents will be assigned
> to the team. I don’t understand how this can work in a cohousing community
> without generating mistrust and hard feelings. That is about to be
> presented to the community at a business meeting.
>
> This is an abbreviated version, of course. My take is based on a few
> months of observation and inquiry, but this whole endeavor is extremely
> concerning to me.
>
> Educating and forming an internal FH review team seems legally wise, but I
> don't think it was done wisely.  One reason I think it was unskillfully
> handled is that unlike conventional communities, which are purely business
> oriented, the ideals of cohousing are based on a well-functioning social
> fabric.  From my perspective, this whole endeavor has been insensitive to
> the social fabric of the community. It's been treated as though it were a
> morality issue rather than a legal and ethical one. The way it was handled
> has damaged my relationship with the community.
>
> I always try to find the humor in dynamics like this. Surely one ironic
> aspect is that they have alienated a once hard-working committed, long time
> member because of what seems to me to be a judgmental, moralistic and
> fundamentalist mind-set towards residents who "transgress."
>
> It's just the stuff of cohousing and something I was mostly prepared for.
> We're a bunch of sometimes unskillful volunteers with varying degrees of
> social intelligence!
>
> Have others had experiences like this?
>
>
> Lisa Kuntz
> Daybreak Cohousing
> Portland OR
> lisa.kuntz [at] gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 10, 2025 at 5:51 AM Mac Thomson <macthomson [at] mac.com> wrote:
>
>> There’s been a lot of concern over the years with cohousing marketing
>> running afoul of fair housing laws.
>>
>> I’m curious, have there ever been any cohousing communities that have
>> actually been sanctioned for violations of fair housing laws?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mac Thomson
>>
>> Heartwood Cohousing
>> Southwest Colorado
>> http://www.heartwoodcohousing.com
>>
>>
>> "It isn't enough to talk about peace.  One must believe in it.  One must
>> work at it."
>>         - Eleanor Roosevelt
>> **********************************************************
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 5, 2025, at 3:03 PM, Lisa Kuntz via Cohousing-L <
>> cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for your reply, Linda.
>>
>> It reflects our concerns about moving away from "full disclosure" due to
>> FH
>> concerns.
>>
>> FH seems to want you to share less, but that seems "unkind" to me, in the
>> sense that potential members could end up buying into community that is
>> not
>> what they expected, or missing the opportunity to live in a community that
>> would be a welcoming "sanctuary."
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 5, 2025 at 1:07 PM Linda Hobbet <coho [at] lindahobbet.com> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> We run into that problem at Village Hearth in Durham, NC. We are an
>> LGBTQIA+ and allies-oriented senior community. one of our core values is
>> to create a space where people are comfortable being themselves in
>> public. While cohousing communities in general are welcoming being in a
>> place where LGBTQ+ people are the majority feels different to our members.
>>
>> We are concerned about that focus changing over time, simply due to
>> demographics, because we aren't allowed to say we prefer LGBTQ+ people
>> when marketing available units. Probably the most useful tool is our
>> website (currently under revision), which makes who we are very clear.
>> That and general promotion of the community without it being linked to
>> marketing a specific unit. Our orientation has attracted media coverage,
>> especially at the beginning. For example, we are going to be featured on
>> an upcoming CBS Eyes on America segment on the national evening news!
>> Nevertheless, our population can easily swing to mostly allies
>> (including myself) rather than actual members of the LGBTQ+ community,
>> simply because 55+ LGBTQ+ people are a much smaller demographic.  We are
>> currently about 50/50.
>>
>> Linda Hobbet
>>
>> On 6/4/2025 7:16 PM, Mariana Almeida via Cohousing-L wrote:
>>
>> Marketing a unit in cohousing is fraught in a fair housing context. You
>>
>> want to know a lot about people, but the fair housing law essentially
>> wants
>> you to know less (so you can discriminate less.)
>>
>> --
>> VillageHearthCohousing.com <http://villagehearthcohousing.com/>
>> 706-202-7178
>> coho [at] lindahobbet.com
>>
>> "When you plant a seed of love, it is you that blooms.”
>>                                                    Ma Jaya
>>
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