Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Hmmmmmm, and remaining relevant all the while (re: all the sex talk)

[Howard Landman (howard]

Hi Grace,

> I would suggest that if you don't view 
> marriage as special and unique- you've never been married.  You may have had 
> a ceremony, you may have had a big party and a few kids... But you were 
> never married.  There is something special and sacred in it.  Anyone whose 
> ever been married will tell you that.

I know people, who have been married, who will not tell you that.  I'm not
one of them, but it still makes your statement false.

Most people *want* marriage to be special and sacred.  Some of them even
get lucky, and it is.  Some don't, and it isn't.  And there's a whole
continuum in between.

But these terms are very slippery, and may mean different things to
different people.  It's easy to argue "good = special = unique = monogamous"
when in fact each link of that chain has serious flaws.  And the equally
flawed converse is "nonmonogamous = not unique = not special = bad".

> What I do not understand is why it is essential in 
> any way to have sex with more than one person

Well, obviously.  You already said that you are "not convinced that
humans MUST have sexual intercourse to ... lead a full life".  And
if you don't think sex is necessary at all, you surely won't think
sex with more than one is.

> I mean other humans are not here to entertain us, Americans have
> a whole industry devoted to that.

I find it very demeaning to imply that sex in the context of a long term,
committed, child-rearing relationship is "entertainment" if there is no
legal marriage and "special and sacred" if there is.  The legal document
just *is* *not* the core of the relationship, nor what makes it "special
and sacred".  What is, what does, is something in the heart.

> Aren't there volumes of ways to experience intimacy with a person?

Yes, there are.  You're the one obsessing on sex as somehow "different"
from the others.  Some people don't see it that black and white.  I've had
massages that were deeper and more powerful experiences than a lot of sex.
I learn things about someone else's body while practicing martial arts with
them that I'd *never* learn in bed.  I've had a close friend hold my head
in her lap and feed me spears of ripe mango - wow!  I've sat for hours
and trimmed split ends from a woman's hair, one at a time, while she read
a book.  And so on, and so on ... human creativity knows no bounds.

But when I want to spend my life with someone, I want to do *all*
these kinds of things.  Not just sex.  Not just non-sex.  "all our
strength and all our sweetness" - Andrew Marvell

> Specifically speaking, if you are my neighbor; I'm going to raise my child 
> to respect you just for being, but to also try to know you and do his best 
> to love you and value you and your opinions.

Yes, and this can be done even when there are fairly profound differences
of opinion.  One of my elder daughter's friends is from an extremely
religious Christian family - which is about as far from my views as you
can get.  But I have no problem with her playing at their house, because
I see no evidence that they're actively trying to convert her to their
beliefs.  And when their daughter is at my house, I treat her the same
way.  No proselytizing, but each set of parents is also free to show
their values and beliefs *by* *example* as things come up in daily life.
We could hardly help doing so.

The question I like to ask myself isn't "Does this person believe the same
things as I do?", but rather, "Would this person be a good neighbor?"
Good neighbors can come in many flavors of religion, ethnicity, and
relationship preference.  The Chinese woman who lives across from my mother
and brings her soup when she's sick ... the retired guy next door who
comes back from fishing trips and shows off by giving us a couple of his
"extra" salmon ... the one with the woodshop who lets you use their nice
and very expensive tools ... the mother who'll trade child care with
you so you can get out to do some shopping ...

> So if you don't want ANYone to know, comment or 
> tangentially-by-defualt-of-knowledge participate in your bedroom activites, 
> yet you want a vibrantly diverse group of neighbors, and you want them to 
> care for you, and your life and what happens in it......   Firstly I don't 
> think you're gonna get it...But to even come close, I don't know how you're 
> gonna get there without being willing to talk about these things, honestly, 
> openly and directly.

There's a big difference between being open about the general situation
("I'm Howard, this is my partner Carol, we're living in coho together.
We were in a triad with my wife Gelly for 6 years, raising our 3 kids,
but now Gelly's divorcing me/us, so she's living elsewhere.  The kids
may be here or there, but they should be treated as full community
members, and Gelly should be treated like a close relative even when
she technically isn't anymore.  It's OK if you see her in our unit when
we're not there - she has a key.") and delving into the details of who
sleeps with whom and how.

Mostly, it just doesn't come up all that often.  I've been to about 20
full community meetings and maybe an equal number of committee meetings
(landscape, kitchen, LAN, ...), and I think it's maybe been mentioned
once, briefly.  Last week I was in the Common House with Carol and a
few other women who were having a "ladies night" to drink wine and talk;
they invited me to stay, and in an hour of chatting it never came up.
Kids, parenting, child care at community meetings, and some unkind
comments made by email were the topics du jour.

And that's as it should be.

        Howard A. Landman