Cohousing-L Mailing List: Hmmmmmm, and remaining relevant all the while (re: all the sex talk)

[Grace Benjamin (grey_sea]

Hello again everybody!!

Little known secret about Grace:  She tries to make up for lurking by 
writing super long messages when she does post....  And then feels guilty 
about being overly verbose and edits herself to where she doesn't fully make 
sense.  So I'll try and make myself a little more clear, and I'll also try 
to be as brief as my chatty self will allow, and lastly, I'd like to say a 
thing or two about list relevance.  Okay, maybe a thing or three.

Firstly, when I replied to the list of questions; I answered from a basic 
premise that I saw implied throughout the questions.  That premise was that: 
a)the person/s in question is/are fictional, b)although fictional, this is 
hypothetically a person I know, c)and lastly, there is some legitimate 
reason that I have been or am exposed to their sex lives.  Assuming all of 
that, I answered from the following core of emotional reasoning: a)what past 
experience/person does this fictional character remind me of- and how did I 
respond then? b)what would a loving and personally honest response to this 
person be? And lastly c)I know this person, he/she is my friend and open to 
dialog with me, so what is in the best interests of my friend, how can I 
maintain this relationship so that my friend will retuurn to me for help 
when they need it; and offer to help me when I need it?

NOW, given all of THAT-

I saw some particular "issues" let us say, that I was not entirely clear 
about.  Or maybe I was, and I'm getting my wires crossed.

1.  Sex, std's and so on.

If a friend of mine liked playing russian roulette, or was a particularly 
dangerous driver; I would say something because I care.  The response that  
"Don't worry about me playing roulette, I'm using blanks; so it's mostly 
safe.."  or "I can drive dangerously because I'm an adult, and I know what 
I'm doing..."  is decidely self-serving.  And I would point that out to my 
friend too.  The single, time-honored, and full-proof method avoiding 
pregnancy and std's is abstinence.  If she just wants entertainment- get a 
dildo, and rent a movie; that is, if she just wants entertainment.  If she's 
looking for a human encounter; human encounters and love don't require 
sex.... I am convinced that humans must identify, and express their 
sexuality to lead healthy, full lives.  I am not convinced that humans MUST 
have sexual intercourse to be alive(to perpetuate the species, yes- but not 
to lead a full life).  So my questions to my hypothetical friends was why 
risk having an experience you don't want if there are completely safe ways 
of getting the thrill?

2.  Marriage and why get anyone's blessing?
(For the context of this paragraph when I say 'community' I mean it in the 
generic sense.)

No marriage is just between two people.  Every marriage involves the circles 
of those that are married, and the wider community in general.  And it has 
to do with so much, much more than sex, I have to laugh that we've discussed 
sex and marriage this much!!  But my point.  When we make a commitment to 
anything, to a lease for example; we sign papers, those papers are signed by 
witnesses- and the paper itself is a witness to the committment.  A verbal 
lease agreement has little or no value- for this reason:  when there is a 
dispute (not if), and you ask your wider community- how shall we resolve 
this?  Who in this dispute is right, wrong, and how does this affect us and 
everybody else- if there is no witness to what you originally agreed upon; 
if the community does not have a common understanding- or worse still, comes 
with a common misunderstanding- how can they be of any help to you in 
resolving the dispute and moving on with your lives?  So my question to my 
hypothetical friends was why is it important to act, behave and seem 
married, and not be married, what gain does that bring you?

3.  Marriage unto itself, and its specialness.

At the risk of an all out flame war; I would suggest that if you don't view 
marriage as special and unique- you've never been married.  You may have had 
a ceremony, you may have had a big party and a few kids... But you were 
never married.  There is something special and sacred in it.  Anyone whose 
ever been married will tell you that.  And yes I know that that is a self 
serving and circular argument (that's why I'm using it;)  But what I'm 
getting at is that just because we may have any number of political, 
personal, emotional issues tied up with marriage, our past experience, and 
so on- we should acknowledge the goodness of the institution, independent of 
the badness of our experience.  If we are fervently pursuing a marriage-like 
relationship, but at the same time fervently avoiding saying that we are 
married; somebody that cares about you at all has got to ask- so what ARE 
you doing?

4.  Boundaries for love in marriage.

I really don't see that there are any boundaries for love in a marriage; and 
partners in a secure, healthy marriage (of any type) can attest to that.  
Humans really should strive to love every person they encounter, 
passionately and wholly.  What I do not understand is why it is essential in 
any way to have sex with more than one person (remember I'm not convinced 
that you need to have sex with ONE person).  That is the question that I 
don't feel has been answered for me.  I mean other humans are not here to 
entertain us, Americans have a whole industry devoted to that.  People exist 
to be loved- if I understand the world correctly that is...   And most 
parents spend a lot of time telling their teenagers that they don't need to 
have sex to show, or be in love with someone.  Aren't there volumes of ways 
to experience intimacy with a person?

So to wrap up with my relevancy points...(yaaaahhh, she's almost done 
rambling!!!)How on earth does this relate in any way to co-housing???

It relates because nothing we do happens in a vacuum.  Especially so in 
co-housing.  People who have chosen to live in co-housing (or intentional 
community for that matter) have chosen to open a great deal of their lives 
to their neighbors.  Like anything, that has good and bad ramifications.  
The good news is the built in support network.  The bad news is the built in 
support network- for those who've had group therapy- imagine never leaving 
'group'.

Specifically speaking, if you are my neighbor; I'm going to raise my child 
to respect you just for being, but to also try to know you and do his best 
to love you and value you and your opinions.  So if you take to playing 
russian roulette, and my little boy says- "...hey mom, you know our neighbor 
I've grown up next to all these years, that neighbor I've grown to love and 
respect?  Well he/she's having a lotta fun playing russian roulette; I think 
I'd like to try that too..."  That's going to matter to me.  If my neighbor 
is a young woman, and gets pregnant when she doesn't want to be, and is now 
faced with hard choices; I'm hurting too.  If my neighbor's marriage falls 
apart- and I didn't even know they were married, how can I hope to 
sympathize or help in any way unless I have some understanding of their 
experience/relationship?

So if you don't want ANYone to know, comment or 
tangentially-by-defualt-of-knowledge participate in your bedroom activites, 
yet you want a vibrantly diverse group of neighbors, and you want them to 
care for you, and your life and what happens in it......   Firstly I don't 
think you're gonna get it...But to even come close, I don't know how you're 
gonna get there without being willing to talk about these things, honestly, 
openly and directly.


Blessings and all things good to everyone who's managed to read this far!!!! 
  (well, blessings to everyone, really)

Love,
Grace

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