Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Designing gathering spaces

[Ann Zabaldo (zabaldo]

Hello all --

I live in the same community along w/ Sharon.  She as clearly laid out some of 
the issues involved in defining personal vs. community spaces and how to charge 
for them.

In a condo legal ownership situation, I would add another one.  What happens 
when a space changes its use e.g. upgraded to another use?  For instance, 
basement space is charged at 1/5 of living space.  What happens when that space 
is converted to living space?  The owner now has an even more valuable property 
but pays at the same former rate.  The smaller units without basement space now 
pay an even larger share of the condo fees.

I believe Pioneer Valley has a super good solution to this in their covenants 
which automatically readjusts the HOA dues when spaces are upgraded.

Really ... I think maybe we can't be 100% EQUAL about these things in cohousing 
because we naturally push the boundaries on all these financial and social 
categories ... sometimes blurring the lines altogether ... but we can be 
"fairer."  And that's the best we can ask.

Best --

Ann Zabaldo
Takoma Village Cohousing
Washington, DC
Principal, Cohousing Collaborative, LLC
Falls Church VA
703-688-2646

On Apr 24, 2012, at 9:39 AM, Sharon Villines wrote:

> 
> 
> On 23 Apr 2012, at 4:50 PM, Nessa Dertnig wrote:
> 
>> Any input on the designing of nodes/gathering spaces and yards, including
>> when it's appropriate to do it, as well as how it's best done (few-hour
>> long workshop by all members? land use committee coming up with a
>> preliminary plan and opening it up to community comments and changes?
>> etc.?), would be greatly appreciated!
> 
> In sociocracy the solution is "both and."
> 
> We have been moved in for almost 12 years and are dealing with this now so I 
> do have some insights and experience to share. Our LCEs, limited common 
> elements that are not owned but reserved for the exclusive use of one 
> condominium unit, were confusingly defined. Each of our legal documents 
> defines them differently.
> 
> First advice is to define LCEs clearly. The most clear is a map with labels. 
> Words can mean many things years later — "But what we meant to say was…." 
> isn't helpful when new people see it differently.
> 
> Second is to charge for them. In DC the default cost of basement space, for 
> example, is ⅕ that of the SF of the unit. So if the cost per SF of an 
> interior, exclusively owned space is $5 a month, the cost of exclusive use of 
> basement space would be $1 a month per SF.
> 
> Our definitions of grass and garden land were the most unclear and 
> impractical. People who live in a townhouse style unit with land out front 
> and out back that no one else would use because it feels like personal space, 
> expect to have free use of that space, including planting whatever they 
> please. Some also want to fence in their backyards for pets and children. 
> Since the backside of their yards is a fence bounding the community land, 
> this creates a problem for other households. The only access to the yards 
> would be through their units — as in lawnmowers through the living room.
> 
> This land also adds to the value of these properties. But they use it and 
> don't pay for it in their condo fees. We are currently in the process of 
> looking at this and making clearer distinctions just so we know what belongs 
> to whom and what they have exclusive right to and what they are responsible 
> for maintaining. Who pays for private decks and balconies being sealed, 
> repaired, and replaced? Is this done on a workday or is it private 
> responsibility? There is wide variation in the size and cost of maintaining 
> LCEs, and we have no rules for how they are maintained. Some unit have no 
> LCEs — no private space outside their units.
> 
> Some of us believe units should pay for land at some rate comparable to 
> basement space. This will both reduce monthly fees for units without such 
> access and encourage those who have it to restrict requests for exclusivity. 
> The problem after 12 years will be charging for what they now use free.
> 
> So I recommend:
> 
> 1. Establish a cost _now_ for whatever exclusive space people end up with.
> 
> 2. Let demarcations float until a year after _everyone_ has moved in so you 
> have some guidelines based on what feels right and all households have an 
> opportunity to do this. (Famous case of Indiana University where they didn't 
> put in sidewalks until they could see where people actually walked.)
> 
> 3. Clearly mark the space people are claiming as theirs in some temporary 
> way. Some people have no sense of boundaries. You can argue till doomsday 
> whether this is conscious or unconscious but they will use any space that is 
> not clearly and firmly denied to them. "Empty"' means "mine." Protect 
> yourself against people who don't want any demarcations and say everything 
> should be free. They mean free to them.
> 
> 4. Hold ongoing discussions about how people are feeling about the divisions. 
> This is harder than it sounds. It's easy to forget because you will be 
> avoiding conflict either because there is conflict or you think let sleeping 
> dogs alone.
> 
> Unless you have a map with these spaces clearly defined, owners will also 
> convey false information to the next buyers of their unit, telling them that 
> certain land is "theirs." Not every buyer understands how to read their deed 
> and the community documents well enough to understand that this is not true. 
> They need a picture. One community allowed a unit to fence in common land in 
> order to protect the rest of the community from their dog. The owners moved 
> out and told the new owners it was their land. How does the community now 
> tear down the fence and say not so when the new owners bought the unit 
> expecting a fence yard for their own dog?
> 
> Self-regulation in communities is a problem. Everyone wants to avoid 
> conflict. Anyone who raises these issues will be labelled a troublemaker. 
> "Live and let live." But the people who are expanding into community space 
> will not necessarily be seen as the people causing the conflict.
> 
> Good luck. It sounds like an exciting time,
> 
> Sharon
> ----
> Sharon Villines
> Takoma Village Cohousing, Washington DC
> http://www.takomavillage.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
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