Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Alternatives for creating inexpensive homes...

[Fred H Olson (fholson]

"M.Studer" <mstuder [at] sssnet.com>
is the author of the message below. 
It was posted by Fred the Cohousing-L list manager <fholson [at] cohousing.org> 
because it was rejected due to size (19K).  After deleting some excess
quoting, it is still big but I'll post and approve it.  Fred
--------------------  FORWARDED MESSAGE FOLLOWS --------------------

Liza (et al),

what you are saying really resonates with me.  I like your idea of folks
working with Habitat for humanity to get skills.  It leads me to a couple
thoughts -
first I think I will take this back to my group and suggest we do this - i
think it would benefit us in multiple ways:
 - as you mentioned, it would give folks in our group some experience with
building.  While some of us have a good deal of experience with building,
our skill sets are a bit piecemeal, and some have really no experience at
all.  This would give the opportunity for us to work with more experienced
folk and develop skills before we tackle building our community.
- it would of course be a good humanitarian effort
- would be a good "bonding" experience, and help teach us how to work
together
- would also possibly be good outreach!  (spread the community word ;-)  )

second, it triggers the thought about actually working with Habitat once we
start building our community to examine the potential of bringing habitat
homes into our community.  Are there any groups out there who have done this
/ attempted this / considered this?  If so what feedback can you provide?

I would also like to engage discussion on some of Liza's other points:

I foresee that the initial investment to purchase the land will require the
start-up group to be of a sufficient income level to swing the purchase and
pay off the land, but I don't see that as a huge roadblock - we have / can
recruit the resources to leverage this.  Once we've got that under our belt,
I think that allows us a bit of play to be able to work with potential new
owners to set up various financing structures to buy in.  With allowing
various financing models beyond the typical mortgage, ability to qualify for
a mortgage does not have to be a roadblock.  By going with a land contract
for example, the new owner could basically make payments directly to the
community LLC.  In a way I suppose this is still kind of like a mortgage, in
that you are making payments, and don't truly own your home until it's paid
of, but it effectively eliminates the third party (i.e. the bank) making
decisions about who can join your community and who can't.  It is rather
like rent-to-own, without the gouging interest rates, and you actually can
get the equity, i.e. - as you make payments, you own proportionally more of
the house, the LLC owns less, until you own it all, and don't have any more
payments!  Have other communities tried this - if so what was your
experience with it?

I know "green" as been a hot topic at times on this list-serve - some of the
various "green technologies" that members of NEOCOHO have proposed /
considered utilizing are:

Passive Solar (this one is almost a no-brainer - doesn't really have to cost
anything, just thoughtfulness in construction in regards to orientation of
homes, how you build, etc)

Alternative energy sources Solar/Wind Power/Geothermal/ Hydro / Natural gas
microturbine
   rambling thoughts on  Natural Gas microturbine - while it is certainly
arguable whether natural gas is really "green" given that it is a
non-renewable resource, it is cleaner than most power which is produced in
Ohio, of which the vast majority is coal-generated, most of the rest comes
from nuclear.  The remaining 2% comes from unspecified "other" sources.
Also here in NE Ohio solar is not always most available (I heard a rumour
that this year there was a grand total of 12 sunny days by May in our area).
Wind, Hydro are variable depending upon your site.  Wood is of course
plentiful in some areas, is renewable, but doesn't necessarily burn clean,
Gas on the other hand is plentiful right now here and burns cleaner.  (it is
not uncommon around here for farms to have wells that they get free gas
from) In the cost/ benefit analysis for our area, yes the natural gas won't
last forever so isn't a long-term solution for the generations, but our air
quality here is in a crisis, so may be an effective answer until our
technologies improve / air quality improves.  Also will be looking into
methane digester (capturing the methane produced by the decomposition of
biological waste).   I of course by no means have my mind made up on this,
but this is my initial ruminations.

Living Machine system waste disposal / greywater systems/  constructed
wetlands
 - For those unfamiliar Living Machine is basically a biological wastewater
treatment system that uses living organisms-plants, fish, etc- in a
greenhouse to treat wastewater.  I actually ran a capital cost analysis of
building a living machine (based on the actual cost of one that was built)
vs. general cost of septic systems - based on the volume of water the system
treated as compared to the number of homes that would support (i.e, number
of septic systems that would need built).  Wouldn't you know it - at least
in theory it would be cheaper to build a living machine.  Now of course this
was only a capital cost analysis I have yet to examine the operating cost
comparison, and also how the capital cost factors down if you are building a
smaller system, thereby losing some of the economy of scale, but it is
encouraging.  If interested for more info:
http://www.ecovillagefindhorn.com/living_machine/

Utilizing building materials with low embodied energy (energy it takes to
produce the material)

Building healthy homes - Utilizing more "natural" products / low-toxicity -
such as low/no-VOC paints, avoiding products that off-gas or contain nice
things such as formaldehyde, benzene, etc

Utilizing reclaimed materials in building - OK I admit I have a terrible
fondness for auctions and construction dumpsters - but hey, then they don't
go to a landfill and I always get permission first.

Local materials - sandstone, local wood, sandstone, concrete is actually a
locally produced material here, sandstone, Summitville tile is locally
produced, sandstone, and oh yeah - and did I mention there is LOTS of
sandstone around here?  (Don't know just how much we can do with it.....)

Xeriscaping, native landscaping, organic gardening, heirloom gardening...

Alternative building materials / methods - straw bale, cordwood masonry,
log, underground, etc, etc - I have seen the recent arguments over whether
it is more ecologically sound to use alternative building methods *or*
high-density housing with shared walls - I am not clear on why this is
considered an either/or proposition - why not combine them and create high
density housing using alternative methods?  wouldn't that be even better?
Of course it would be even more fabulous if we could find a former
campground to convert, thereby not having to build- but as they say, if
wishes were horses....
I concede that ideally we would cluster all the people into cities and leave
the countryside untouched, but I am a child of the barn and forest raised.
Cities grate on me - the cacophony of mechanical noise, the filth, the smell
of the sickly air, honking horns and wailing sirens, violent crime, the
glare of the endless sea of concrete and asphalt.  (give me the din of
crickets and katydids, good clean dirt, the smell of manure, bleating goats
and chittering squirrels, battered mailboxes, the soft filtered light of the
field and forest any day).  Some of us don't belong in the city.  I
desensitize to an extent with extended exposure, and endure it for the sake
of my life's work, but there is a part of me that is complete only in the
gently rolling hills of my youth - sure I can push it down and seal it off
and pretend not to feel it's absence.  But when I return I feel such a
rightness and completeness that it's a revelation every time.  My roots call
to me and I yearn to answer.  I sustain myself with the focus on the
importance of the work that keeps me tied to the city and the glimmering
hope of someday returning to become whole again.  The thought of being
forever parted from that part of myself makes my soul weep.

Ok, I am sure you are all tired of reading now.  Looking forward to
feedback!

Liza - if you are still interested in three years, and would consider Ohio,
look us up!  We'll probably still be a couple years away from land
acquisition at that point, unless we win the Megamillions (it's up to $150
million) In the meantime anyone who is interested in attending our
discussion group or wants to hear updates can e-mail us at neocoho [at] 
yahoo.com
.
Regards,
Michelle Studer
Canal Fulton OH
NEOCOHO
neocoho [at] yahoo.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Elizabeth Cobb" <lizacobb [at] earthlink.net>
To: <cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 3:07 PM
Subject: [C-L]_Alternatives for creating inexpensive homes...


> Michelle,
>
> Proviso:
>
> Ever since I found out about the concept of co-housing (a curious series
of
> serendipitous "coincidences" in 2002), I have been mostly an observer on
the
> sidelines of this list serv, at first wildly excited, then cautious, then
> ... ?!
>
> I don't like the idea of cohousing being just another way of privileged
> Americans making sure to get "their" piece of the pie -- but in a way that
> enables them to feel good about themselves (hence the ideal of
community) --
> while the vast majority in America (let alone the world) continue living
> under-housed or unhoused, and unseen (so that the rest of us don't see the
> fallacy in the "american dream,"  and don't need to feel guilty...  This
> seeming to be the case, I don't want to become a part of a movement that
de
> facto puts me into the camp of the "haves," and separates me from the have
> nots...
>
> *******
>
> That said, I want to believe that alternatives exist...  What if a
> likeminded (but financially diverse) group of people decided to learn how
to
> build, by working to build houses for Habitats for Humanity, and then
> managed to build their own houses?  What if mortgages didn't have to be a
> necessity, and a screener?  What if the houses didn't have to be like the
> oversized, conspicuously-consuming mansion-wannabes that are going up all
> over Northern Virginia on postage-stamp-sized plots of land, with
three-car
> garages, and whirlpool baths, and everything that today's overachievers
> can't seem to live without?  What if we built them ourselves, using the
> latest green technology, side by side, building community even as we built
> our community?
>
> It sounds like a fairy tale, and furthermore from the mostly dead silence
> when I occasionally put out a feeler onto the listserv, a fairy tale that
> fails to resonate with many folks.  Still, I keep hoping, listening,
> learning, waiting...  I have another three more years to live in another
> country before deciding whether this fairy tale might have some basis in
> reality.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Liza

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