Cohousing-L Mailing List: Oh My!! romanticizing indeed!! [LONG]

[Grace Benjamin (grey_sea]

Oh My!!

I should say, that I'd personally gotten bored with the list and was 
deleting the digests out of hand thinking that the 'romanicizing' thread was 
about idealizing the co-hosing model of lifestyle....  I stopped and read a 
few posts.. boy was I wrong!

Well, after reading, there are a couple of posts I'd like to respond to.  
I'm catching the tail end of the discussion, and hopefully won't add lighter 
fluid to the embers of some dying argument...but please, please forgive me 
if I do.

I'm responding question for question to Joani's thought provokers, and will 
try to state my beliefs accurately for Stuarts' question's as well.  I 
should say in advance that may views may strike some of you as myopic on the 
surface, and may still seem so after I explain them- but I'm going to try...


1. A young single mom is dating someone from outside the community
steadily. He often spends the night at her house, and most weekends she is 
with him while her son is with his father.

I'm hoping I'm on good enough terms with my neighbor to speak frankly with 
her.  Assuming I am; I'd ask her where this relationship was heading and if 
she genuinely felt she was handling it in the best way.  Does she feel 
secure and emotionally safe in it?  Is it just a good time?  If it is just a 
good time- is a good time worth the risk of std's and pregnancy?  If it 
feels secure and safe, then why aren't we planning a wedding?  And if she's 
not ready for that, then why is she risking std's and pregnancy?  Most 
importantly- would she condone this behavior in her child if he was 
nineteen- legally an adult?  WHy would/wouldn't she?  A pretty good rule 
that kept me out of a lot of trouble as a teenager was to ask myself- would 
I mind if my mother caught me doing this?  The rule that keeps me out of 
trouble now is- would I mind if my son caught me doing this?

2. A couple who is not married is living together. (Don't laugh. When I was 
growing up, this was considered quite immoral by some.)

Similar to above, I'd want to know what they were waiting for.  Why would 
they wish to present themselves as married, and not BE married?  It strikes 
me as dishonest, and not entirely reverent of their relationship or the 
specialness of marriage.

3.  A man in the community has a collection of erotic art hanging in his 
home.

I wonder about this...  To call it erotic and to call it art creates a 
problem for me.  If it is art (excluding literature) then it may be sensual, 
intimate, earthy and human, but probably not erotic.  But then again, what 
ever it is- it is in his house.  So on that basis alone, I have no real 
comment on it; a critique maybe...

4.  A single woman has two or more boyfriends who often spend the night 
after an evening date with her.

See response to #1.

5. An older man is visited weekly by an attractive young masseuse, who some 
suspect or assume to be a professional sex worker.

See response to #1.

6.  An older woman is in a committed relationship with a man 22 years her 
junior--the same age as her grown son.

I would want to know how her son feels about it, and if it causes a problem 
for that relationship...  Otherwise, I don't see a problem for her, or me..

7. A  male couple socializes a great deal with a half dozen other gay men.

I'd want to know why they aren't inviting me to all these parties!!! Having 
fun and leaving me out!! The nerve!!

8. A lesbian couple has one child and another on the way.

This question is incomplete for me, because I would think different things 
in diff. circumstances.  But let's just say that if they were adopting, I 
would only seek to assist in any way that I could.

9. An adult in the community is overly affectionate with the children  to 
the point where parents are uncomfortable about having their kids spend time 
with this adult.

I would ask this adult to leave, erring on the side of caution... otherwise 
I would leave myself rather than expose my child to possible harm.

10. There is a very effeminate man or masculine woman or someone who openly 
identifies as transgendered or transsexual in the community.

If he or she dressed well, I'd get tips, if not- I'd make suggestions.

11.  You have reason to believe from the sounds issuing from one house that 
the monogamous, married couple who lives there engages in somewhat "kinky" 
sexual practices.

Whatever butters their toast...

12.  Several people in the community know that an ostensibly monogamous man 
or woman is having a "affair" unbeknownst to his or her spouse.

Assuming I'm on good terms with my neighbor; I'd talk to him/her and see if 
I could help him/her in any way.  I'd like to know what's wrong with the 
marriage and what kinds of steps they'd like to take to be lead a more 
honest life.  Did this person and their spouse ever really have a marriage?  
How is keeping this deception going to affect everybody?  How can this 
person expect me to keep quiet about his/her gross dishonesty?  And is this 
"affair" really worth the damage it can cause (perhaps already has) to the 
community?

13. Some parents in the community think it is okay for kids to learn a lot 
about sex uality at a young age, or to see sexually explicit videos when 
they are in elementary or junior high school; others do not.

Just erring on the side of caution, couldn't we as a group accept NOT 
exposing children to sexually explicit materials; while parents made their 
individual choices about what their children watched at home?

14. The gay couple occaisionally walks through the common area arm in arm 
and have been seen greeting one another with a kiss when returning from 
work.

That's pretty sweet.

15. A couple with a 16 year old daughter lets the daughter's boyfriend spend 
the night at their home with her.

Is it entirely clear that the two children are haveing sex?  That seems to 
be the implication in the question... I just ask, because neighbors can 
easily reach ridiculous conclusions...;)  They could be just playing cards 
or whatever...  Stranger things have happened.

-------------------------------------------------------------
Stuart-

I'm not sure if I'm feel strongly enough against polyamory to be qualified 
to answer, but I do feel against it- so maybe I do qualify.

>I would like to ask those folks who are strongly uncomfortable with
>polyamory, why does it make you uncomfortable?  I mean the question >in a 
>very personal way (I'm interested in "I statements" not "You >statements".)

What makes me uncomfortable is my complete incomprehension.  I simply cannot 
understand how it is not immoral; I mean how is a person with two spouses 
not being adulterous towards one of them?  Additionally, why would you want 
to?  A two person marriage is more work than most people are really prepared 
to handle.

>What specific feelings do you personally have about the concept of >someone 
>in your community being polyamorous?  (Feelings, not >judgements).

Abject curiosity.

>What bad thing might happen to you because of a polyamorous >neighbour?  
>What are your paranoid fantasies here?

I fear that I would make a complete ass out of myself for asking enumerous 
personal and invasive questions.  I'm serious, I'm NOT trying to poke fun.  
I'm afraid that I could become obsessed with trying to understand it, and 
reconcile it as not immoral...  That could lead to some unpleasant moments 
to say the least.


Well ther's my input- hope everybody's well!!

Grace

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