Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Giving or Taking

[Molly Williams (mmw]

Becky,

I'm not a member of a co-housing community, but I know what you
mean, about feeling more miserly when the people to whom you are
giving seem to feel that it's your duty to do so and that it's their
right to have a portion of what you have. I see this in others and I
feel it in myself. It's not a reaction I'm proud of, but it's a
reality and seems to be commonly felt. 

We still have annual town meetings here in our part of Maine, and
it's commonly understood by most of us that when a group of people
who wants the town to plow their road, for instance, starts acting
like it's their due, as taxpayers, to have their non-town (not up to
town standards), non-paved road plowed, and that the rest of the
town better subsidize it, they won't get the plowing approved. Other
groups, with the same request, sometimes do prevail, if they present
it as a hopeful request and not a demand. 

No one likes to be told they owe someone else something; many people
are happy to give to the same cause or people when they think it's
their own choice.  

We are non-parents, most of whose property taxes goes to pay for the
local public school system. While I believe that having an educated
populace is a benefit to the whole society, parents or not, it still
irks me to have to pay ever-increasing taxes for other people's kids
to go to school. People who have 4 or 6 or 8 kids expect everyone
else, including non-parents and parents of smaller families, to pay
for their kids' education for 13 years. In fact, I pay a
disproportionate share of school taxes, since I have no kids and can
afford a large house on a lot of land. Most of the people with kids
in the town have smaller houses/acreage and pay less than we do in
property taxes. Even though we derive an indirect benefit from
having educated kids, it still seems unfair that we foot more of the
bill than the people who derive the direct benefit (the parents).
Yet, we are happy to make charitable contributions far in excess of
our property taxes to educational bodies, when it's our choice to do
so. And when we think the money is well spent, which is another
issue!

Another instance I can think of, probably common to most people, is
one family member who, about now, starts sending out pages torn from
catalogs of items she wants us to get her for Christmas. I have
nothing against buying a Christmas present or two for this person,
but it's irritating in the extreme to have her making assumptions
abut what and how much we will buy. Takes the joy of giving out of
the whole process.

Another town/community issue that comes to mind is the debate we
have as a community every year about pay-per-bag trash removal. Last
year, a man with 6 kids stood up to say it's unfair for him to have
to pay $1 per bag to have his trash removed, since he already pays
taxes to have this done. Of course, those of us with no or few kids
and much smaller amounts of trash also pay taxes to have this done,
and our share of the taxes is once again disproportionately higher,
since we all pay an average percentage amount (again, part of
property tax) based on the total trash bill, and the trash bill is
higher when there is more trash to dispose of, and most families
with 6 kids will have much more trash than smaller families. So we
are already paying to dispose of some of this guy's trash, but he
resents having to pay any more to account for the increased waste
generated by his own family, by his own choice to have 6 kids. AAGH!
Talk about entitlement!

So I think I understand what you're saying, about the day care
situation in your cohousing group. I don't know how to resolve it,
except, and this might seem weird, by having the people who are
paying for the childcare pay /more/, be even more generous than they
are expected to be, thereby feeling again that it's their choice to
be so giving; or by having them have more control of the whole
process, so that their money buys them something as well, even if
it's just the sense of control, choice, etc.

~ Molly Wms. (Maine)

> > From: Becky Schaller <bschaller [at] theriver.com>
> > Reply-To: cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org
> > Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 18:35:46 -0700
> > To: <cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org>
> > Subject: [C-L]_Giving or Taking
> >
> > I'm finding myself in a strange situation and I'd like to hear how others
> > have dealt with similar situations.  As you read this message, it may look
> > like an issue about whether a community should pay for child care or not.
> > Although I have no control over how people may respond to this, I do want to
> > make it clear that that is not the issue I'd like addressed.
> >
> > What I'm asking for is people's experience in being willing to give someone
> > something until it's demanded that you give that same thing to them.
> >
> > We are discussing whether or not the community should continue to pay for
> > child care during general meetings. We did when we were in the planning and
> > building stages.  We've continued to do so after moving in.  However, we
> > didn't budget for it in the HOA.
> >
> > Several months ago we discussed this issue.  It was such an easy issue then.
> > People who weren't parents were wanting to contribute and many parents
> > thought it was their responsibility to do so but were delighted that so many
> > people wanted to contribute.   We were just getting a feel for what people
> > thought at that point and we did not make any decision.
> >
> > Since then, I'm not exactly sure what happened.  Well, one thing that
> > happened is that we now owe the HOA about $800 since we've been paying for
> > child care out of the HOA and there is no budget item for child care at this
> > point.
> >
> > When we discussed the issue several months ago, I was happy to contribute.
> > Like I said, many others were also.  But since then, I've heard some parents
> > talking like the community should be paying for childcare during meetings.
> >
> > And I've noticed that several of us have responded to these commnets in a
> > way I hadn't previously thought of.  While we're more than willing to
> > contribute money, we don't want people to demand it of us.
> >
> > One man, who does not have children, even put out an email clearly stating
> > that while he wanted to contribute to child care costs,  he was also wanting
> > a sense of appreciation from the parents instead of a sense of entitlement.
> > I clearly hear that from some parents, but I also continue to hear other
> > parents talk about child care during meetings as their right.
> >
> > The difference may seem subtle, but for me it's about giving the money
> > because this is something I choose to do or giving the money because I'm
> > irresponsible or even bad if I don't.
> >
> > I don't remember the scene very well. But I think about the scene in Les
> > Miserables where the police return to the priest's house with the thief.
> > They asked if the silver which the thief had taken had belonged to the
> > priest.  I don't remember exactly what the priest said, but to the thief, he
> > did say something like, "You forgot these.  These also belong to you."  And
> > the priest gave the thief the priest's sterling candlesticks.
> >
> > Vague as my memory is, I have thought about that scene a lot.  My conclusion
> > is that that priest is much more enlightened than I am.
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm really not asking for advice about whether the community should be
> > paying for child care.  What I'm asking for is people's advice or experience
> > in being willing to give someone something until they demand that you give
> > that same thing to them.  I can't help but think this dynamic has come up in
> > other communities and will come up again in ours.
> >
> > Becky Schaller
> > Sonora Cohousing
> > Tucson, AZ
> >
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