Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Children (in cohousing and elsewhere)

[racheli (racheli]

Hi Roger,
I want to address some of what I think your assumptions are:

1-  Noise is bad.  Maybe it is, it certainly seems to be that way in this
culture.  In the kibbutz where I grew up there
were about 500 members.  All those people and their children
ate dinner in one huge hall.  The noise was probably unbearable (in terms
of what I'd see as acceptable now), yet nobody
seemed to mind.  Kids in huge numbers played outside on the
lawn - I don't remember ever having an adult come over to tell us to stop
making noise.
My point is that noise isn't considered bad everywhere.  I'm not saying
that if some people dislike it, there is a problem which needs to be
addressed.  I'm just attempting to alert you to the fact that it isn't a
problem "objectively speaking".  
I'd like you and others to consider that while you have a problem with the
kids making noise,  kids often have a problem with you (and others)
constantly attempting to control their behavior. They probably won't tell
you that (they know who has the power), but they resent the interference
nevertheless.  


>1) The natural tendency for crowds of kids to get louder and louder, if
>only  to be heard over the other kids.  To buck this trend takes regular
>adult  supervision, which tends not to happen at mealtimes.  One family
>won't let  their son hang out after mealtimes because he gets too revved
>up and then  crashes and is difficult to get into bed.

The more society insists on supervising children
all the time, the more they'll seem "out of control" at moments when they
are left to their own devices.
My opinion is that if they were allowed MORE unsupervised time, rather
than less (even though this is obviously age-related), their behavior
might improve.
I used to spend a lot of time at public parks (with my kids who didn't go
to school).  The time we disliked the most was when school buses brought
over school-kids.  They *were* incredibly loud, often agressive and
oblivious to other kids and people's needs.  I think this was the result
of having to sit and "be supervised" most of the day in class, and having
an overload of steam (and anger) to get rid of.  
All people need autonomy, and this includes children.
It's been interesting to me, since we moved into our cohousing community,
how for so many people caring for someone else's
kids means (in full, or in large part) having the right to "admonish". IMO
"admohishing" might work when someone has a real, and
a largely *positive* relationship with a child, (just like with adults! :) 
 If you don't really know a kid, and the only time she has any  meaningful
contact with you is when you lecture her about her allegedly 
inappropriate behavior,  why should she take you seriously? - For  one
thing, she doesn't sense that you take *her* seriously.  You are just one
more of the many adults who try to exert (what's to her is a negative)
control on her life.  So, the minute you turn away, she'll probably go
back to what she was doing.  Or perhaps not, *out of fear*.  But fear
doesn't inspire anyone in a positive way, and fearful people (children
included) find ways to lash out.

For people who are interested in reading about non-coercion and children,
I'd like to recommend a few sources:
Alice Miller's books ("For Your Own Good"; and "Thou Shall Not Be  Aware"
are two I like a lot).
John Holt's books.
Non Violent Communication related material: There is a video
with Marshall Rosenberg about parenting.  They also have a brochure on
this subject, and the NVC book has relevant material.

R.



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racheli [at] sonoracohousing.com
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