Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Cohousing-L digest, Vol 1 #948 - 4 msgs

[Luk Jonckheere (l.jonckheere]

Hallo everyone,
I always read the co-housing mailing list with a lot of interest.  Over the
months I have learned many new things. My thanks to you all out there!
Today I want to share my opinion regarding  sterilizing dishes.
In Belgium, like in France, people suffer less from foodpoisining, than for
example in Britain.  I don't think this is because we are much cleaner, on
the contrary, some restaurant-kitchen's are rather dirty, I would say.  But
our eating-culture is different.  We eat a large variaty of food and we know
how to cook it.  I think, that way, our resistance to food-bugs is higher,
and that is what it is all about.  Using chloride and sterilizing ordinary
dishes is bad for nature and therefore also bad for us.  Instead, making
healthy food with  fresh ingredients will do al lot for your health and at
the same time build a strong resistance so you can handle the bugs when they
come.
So far my opinion.
Greetings to all,
Marie Renders
Co-housing West Brabant, Belgium (forming)
----- Original Message -----
From: <cohousing-l-request [at] cohousing.org>
To: <cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 7:00 PM
Subject: Cohousing-L digest, Vol 1 #948 - 4 msgs


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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. sterilizing dishes, was Re: [C-L]_Universal Design and Co-housing
(S. Kashdan)
>    2. dishes (Casey Morrigan)
>    3. Re: dishes (Sharon Villines)
>    4. Letter to Editor (Maggie Dutton)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> From: "S. Kashdan" <skashdan [at] scn.org>
> To: <cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org>
> Subject: sterilizing dishes, was Re: [C-L]_Universal Design and Co-housing
> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 12:25:46 -0700
> Reply-To: cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org
>
> We are particularly careful about sterilizing dishes because one of our
> members' mother has gotten sick from food at church gatherings a few
times,
> along with other people who attended the same gatherings.
>
> I think one thing to keep in mind is that you or I may wash the dishes
very
> thoroughly, but not everyone will. So, when tasks are shared and
alternated
> sometimes being careful about sterilizing dishes will be an unnecessary
> extra, but sometimes it will make the difference between dishes being
clean
> enough and not.
>
> Sylvie Kashdan
> skashdan [at] scn.org
> Jackson Place Cohousing
> 800 Hiawatha Place South
> Seattle, WA 98144
> www.seattlecohousing.org
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 14:28:11 -0700
> From: Casey Morrigan <cjmorr [at] pacbell.net>
> To: "'cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org'" <cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org>
> Subject: [C-L]_dishes
> Reply-To: cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org
>
> The use of chlorine to sanitize dishes works.  And making and using
> chlorine isn't good for the environment.  Both are true.
>
> Why do dishes "have" to be sterilized?  They don't have to be, in
> non-commercial settings.  In commercial settings, it's the law, because
> food borne and person-to-person illnesses can be transmitted that way and
> there is some public agreement that people eating in commercial
> establishments shouldn't bear that risk.
>
> It's not a question of "have to", rather, it is a question of what kind of
> risks one wants to take.  Sterilizing dishes lowers the risk, in a group,
> of disease.  It is always hardest to plan for these "low-incidence,
> high-impact" risks.  You end up sterilizing a lot of dishes that are ok in
> the hope that you clean that one special one! And, one almost always
argues
> a lot over whether the action one takes is worth the effort (or the
> environmental destruction, in this case).  There is always someone whose
> risk tolerance is higher than yours, who wouldn't mind risking the
disease,
> which might not happen anyway.  Of course, anyone who has lived through a
> bout of food poisoning loses some of their tolerance to risk.
>
> Anyway, to get unstuck on dish sterilization:  it's important to have a
> package of things you do to keep food prep and dishes clean and safe for
> your community.  Dish cleaning, safe food prep, safe food storage, safe
> serving, and routine handwashing are parts of the package.  All of these
> lower risks of getting or transmitting a disease in the community.  You
can
> choose to believe or disbelieve the science. You can have a higher risk
> tolerance than your neighbor.  I know my risk tolerance is low for
> preventable illness, and I consider it an act of caring for my community
> when I reduce their and my risk by engaging in these behaviors.
>
> Casey Morrigan
> Two Acre Wood
> Sebastopol, California
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sharon Villines [mailto:sharon [at] sharonvillines.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 9:56 AM
> > To: cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org
> > Subject: Re: [C-L]_Universal Design and Co-housing
> >
> >
> >
> > On 6/21/2003 12:16 AM, "Elizabeth Stevenson"
> > <tamgoddess [at] attbi.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > No. I want to know why dishes have to be sterilized.
> > Washing them and
> > > letting them air dry, or washing them in a dishwasher is
> > perfectly safe.
> > >
> > > Chlorine, on the other hand, is a poison.
> >
> > I don't think any public health officials agree with this. Disease
> > transmission by insufficiently cleaned eating utensils is one
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 17:44:19 -0400
> Subject: Re: [C-L]_dishes
> From: Sharon Villines <sharon [at] sharonvillines.com>
> To: "cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org" <cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org>
> Reply-To: cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org
>
> On 6/21/2003 5:28 PM, "Casey Morrigan" <cjmorr [at] pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> > Anyway, to get unstuck on dish sterilization:  it's important to have a
> > package of things you do to keep food prep and dishes clean and safe for
> > your community.  Dish cleaning, safe food prep, safe food storage, safe
> > serving, and routine handwashing are parts of the package.
>
> This is what I forgot to mention -- in cohousing (ours at least) there is
no
> security or routine for dish washing or storage. Generally we know that
> dishes after a (large) meal have been through the sanitizer but the ones
> that end up in the dish drainer -- who knows? These are then put away in
the
> same trays that the sanitized dishes are in. We have an open kitchen and
the
> whole thing is very unsupervised.
>
> I once wrote an article on poisonous herbs and poisons that can be hidden
in
> teas and foods. While the amounts needed can be vast and more than anyone
> could possibly eat or hide, in other instances they are not. After this
> study I was very surprised anyone ever ate food they hadn't prepared
> themselves. We eat with an incredible sense of trust!!!
>
> Sharon
> --
> Sharon Villines
> Takoma Village Cohousing, Washington DC
> http://www.takomavillage.org
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 16:06:41 -0600
> From: Maggie Dutton <mdutton [at] shaw.ca>
> To: Cohousing-L <cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org>
> Subject: [C-L]_Letter to Editor
> Reply-To: cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org
>
> Hi everyone....(those who, like me are not at the conference in Boulder)
> I thought some might like to see the letter that was published yesterday
in
> our local paper..see below...any comments or suggestions? The Editor added
> the Heading...it surprised me because it is more positive than my letter
in
> tone.  That's good because I was pretty frustrated when I wrote it. My
> heading had been "Are We The Only Ones?"  After I sent the letter I
thought
> it would be nice to know if others in Fort McMurray feel as we do about
the
> housing situation here so I created a survey on Housing Satisfaction.  It
is
> on our web site at http://www.thehomesproject.shawbiz.ca/survey1.htm
> Hopefully if enough people respond to it, we will get an idea if we are
> crazy to think Cohousing would work here.
>
> "NEW CONCEPT IN HOUSING GETS OFF THE GROUND"
> Since arriving in town last fall I can't count the number of times that I
> have heard statements like;
>
> "Fort McMurray is different than any other city.  People are transient and
> just here to make big money.  All they do is work and they have no time to
> get involved in something like you are proposing.  Other people have tried
> to get similar things going with no luck."
>
> We brought with us a great new concept for affordable housing that has
been
> successful in many places, most recently in Calgary.  It is called
> Cohousing.  Most people that we have told about it in Fort McMurray say
they
> think it is a great idea, but not for them...for someone else.  We
> acknowledge that Cohousing is not for everyone, but for those who are
> interested in living in a close-knit neighbourhood, it is a wonderful,
> alternative housing option.
>
> I am writing this letter to ask Fort McMurrayites to let us know if we are
> not the only ones.....
>
> * Who want to live in a close-knit community where we know all of our
> neighbours and have many friends.
> * Who have a little extra time and energy and lots of ideas, to invest in
> creating a community, intentionally.
> * Who recognize that a better quality of life is possible by banding
> together and sharing resources and time.
> * Who are interested in participating in a "resident-driven" development
> process that would see an affordable housing community built by 2004/5 as
a
> result.
> * Who would enjoy living in a diverse housing community where amenities
such
> as a day care and a community kitchen/garden are shared.
> * Who would still like to have privacy in a self-contained unit.
> * Who would like "green" values to be reflected in the project
> * Who would like to be sure that the project is designed both physically
and
> socially to suit the needs of the "residents-to-be"
> * Who relish the prospect of the adventure in personal growth that will
come
> from the groups experience in community building
> * Whose purpose in being in Fort McMurray goes beyond making money.
> * Who don't say "I'm out of here as soon as possible so why get involved"
> * Who don't say that our  "Home" is somewhere else!
>
> We are seeking others who find that they resonate with our vision of a
> cooperative affordable community in this great city.  For more information
> about Cohousing or our plans please visit our web site at
> www.thehomesproject.shawbiz.ca or contact Maggie at 715-0449.
> mdutton [at] shaw.ca  An Open House will be held at our new Community House on
> June 28th from 1 to 4.  We invite everyone to come and visit and tell us
> what you need in housing.
> Maggie Dutton,
> Director of Work Enjoyment,
> H.O.M.E.S.  Housing Ourselves Made Easy Society
> 159 Eymundson Rd.
> Fort McMurray, T9H 4N1
>
>
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
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