Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Liberal and conservative outlook

Thinking about conservative and liberal vantage points - TED has a rather 
thought-provoking contribution by Jonathan Haidt called "the real difference 
between liberals and conservatives". 
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/jonathan_haidt_on_the_moral_mind.html 

Hans

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Celebrating Obama's victory (balaji [at] ouraynet.com)
   2. Re: Celebrating Obama's victory (Sharon Villines)
   3. Anonymous post from conservative cohouser? (Fred H Olson)
   4. Re: Celebrating Obama's victory (Gerald Manata)
   5. Re: Celebrating Obama's victory (Richard L Kohlhaas)
   6. Re: Celebrating Obama's victory (Sharon Villines)
   7. Re: Anonymous post from conservative cohouser? (Fred H Olson)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 11:42:43 -0700 (MST)
From: balaji [at] ouraynet.com 
Subject: Re: [C-L]_ Celebrating Obama's victory
To: "Cohousing-L" <cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org>
Message-ID:
        <48073.128.187.0.164.1225910563.squirrel [at] squirrel.ouraynet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1

Yes, I think you are right about the "early adopter" bias in cohousing,
which tends to favor the more liberal among us.  It is a sign of health,
however, that this is changing.  Cohousing, in my view, is one of the most
conservative solutions possible to our pressing social and environmental
needs.  And that's just how I've pitched it -- with some success -- here
in Utah.

Charles Nuckolls
Utah Valley Commons
www.utahvalleycommons.com 

>
>
> Great point and I wish I had been more inclusive in my title.
>
> My experience is that most cohousers today are fairly liberal - some
> downright radical. My personal belief this is large an early adopter
> phenomena and that we have probably already broadened as our numbers
> have grown and that we will continue to broaden in many different
> dimensions as the concept becomes better known and more accessible.
>
> Craig
>
> Hi Ann and all,
> I want to say that I, as a decidedly "lefty" kind of person, felt
> relieved by
> Obama's win (because I think is way less likely to cause nuclear
> devastation).
> I haven't celebrated, and with the celebratory outbursts of most people
> around me
> I've been feeling rather isolated.
> I'm saying this to point out that not only people on the "right",
> (conservatives), feel
> sometimes isolated in cohousing.  And that the idea that we all
> "celebrated" leaves out
> people on both sides of the spectrum.
>
> Racheli, Sonora Cohousing, Tucson.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 9:51 AM, Ann Zabaldo <zabaldo [at] earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>> Hello all!
>> I've been reading all the posts on how communities celebrated the
>> election
>> last night.  An historic moment.  I share in your joy.
>> I also have a question that's been on my mind for a few years ...
>> Is there room for conservatives in cohousing?  Or are we islands of
>> liberal/progressive thought?  (Not saying this is "bad" or "wrong." --
>> just
>> curious ...)
>>
>> The reason I got involved in cohousing is that I immediately saw this
>> social
>> structure as one road to peace in the world.  (If we can figure out
>> how to
>> live together in small communities maybe we can tackle the Middle
>> East.)  So
>> I'm always looking for mutuality, inclusivity and connection in
>> cohousing.
>> I know there ARE some conservative folks in cohousing -- out there
>> somewhere
>> -- but I wonder how welcome we make them feel when it looks as if
>> there is
>> "A" kind of political leaning?
>> For instance ... the question posed in this thread wasn't:
>> What did your community do on election night?
>> But rather:
>> Did your community CELEBRATE last night?   (emphasis mine)
>> The implication of this question is that clearly cohousing and
>> cohousers are
>> Obama supporters.   Which is highly likely TRUE ... I'm just wondering
>> where
>> "inclusivity" and "diversity" are in this picture?
>> Personally, I've always understood cohousing to be non-ideological --
>> all
>> are welcome.  Maybe not?
>> This is NOT an indictment of all the celebrations that went on last
>> night
>> (and may still be going on!)  There's LOTS to celebrate!  AND if
>> cohousing
>> is to reach its full flowering then it must be a possibility for ALL
>> people
>> -- not just liberal/progressive people.
>> Ok.  You can now start throwing bricks and tomatoes at me!
>> :-)
>>
>> Best --
>> Ann Zabaldo
>> Takoma Village
>> Washington, DC
>> Principal, The Cohousing Collaborative
>> McLean, VA
>> PH: 703 663 3911
>> FAX 202 291 8594
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Cohousing-L mailing list -- Unsubscribe, archives and other info at:
> http://www.cohousing.org/cohousing-L/ 
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 14:15:07 -0500
From: Sharon Villines <sharon [at] sharonvillines.com>
Subject: Re: [C-L]_ Celebrating Obama's victory
To: Cohousing-L <cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org>
Message-ID: <C0B8AD0B-67CB-4CA4-AA1D-0DD60F4362D3 [at] sharonvillines.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

On Nov 5, 2008, at 1:37 PM, Lyle Scheer wrote:

> The running joke here at Bear Grass Village in Ashland, Oregon, when  
> we
> were still trying to sell our last unit, was that we were holding out
> for a single elderly gay black conservative/republican male.

Cohousers are not alone. A friend whose university department was  
trying to hire an economist had an empty tenure line for two years  
because the department of young white liberal men had to meet an  
affirmative action quota. They needed a Black Marxist woman who had  
lived in China (or other managed economy), who was over 50 (age  
distribution), in a wheelchair or blind, and preferably a card- 
carrying Communist.

Another campus was not allowed to replace an Asian Art History  
specialist because they couldn't find a black candidate with a  
completed Ph.D., even when they waived teaching experience. The  
President of the campus wouldn't believe that there were only two in  
the world that spoke English, and neither of them was willing to move  
to a small town in the middle of nowhere. One of them was in a bidding  
war over salary with Harvard and, I think, Stanford. And the other one  
was at Yale.

Sharon
----
Sharon Villines
Takoma Village Cohousing,Washington DC
http://www.takomavillage.org 

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 12:45:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Fred H Olson <fholson [at] cohousing.org>
Subject: [C-L]_ Anonymous post from conservative cohouser?
To: -cohousing-L mailing list <cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org>
Message-ID:
        <Pine.LNX.4.64.0811051226460.22656 [at] farnsworth.tigertech.net>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

When I first saw the "Celebrating Obama's victory" threads, my first
thought was whether this was "off topic".  ( Clearly creeping up to the
border but it's too late anyway. )  And the life in cohousing aspects
redeem it.  The recurring question about whether there are politically
conservative people in cohousing is even more noteworthy.

In my experience, majority opinions tend to inhibit other points of view.
It's often easier to be quite about differences rather than wade into
touchy discussions.  It may be that there are conservatives in cohousing
but they are reluctant to be vocal about it.

In light of this I offer to post comments from conservatives after
scrubbing any identifying information to make them anonymous and I pledge
to not reveal their identity.  Of course you'd need to trust me.  I have
done this on a few occasions on request in other situations.
To do this carefully send your message to me ( fholson [at] cohousing.org )
rather than to the list with a explanitory preamble which I will remove.

Note that if no one responds it will still be inconclusive.  Maybe
no one will feel comfortable with my offer.  Maybe there are no
conservatives who subscribe to cohousing-L even if there are conservatives
in cohousing.

Fred, listserv manager, http://justcomm.org who happened to wake up at 2am
 and checked his computer to see the outcome of our US Senate race here in
 MN (Al Franken / Norm Coleman).  It is going to a recount since they are
 separated by about 700 votes.

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 12:51:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Gerald Manata <gmanata2003 [at] yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [C-L]_ Celebrating Obama's victory
To: Cohousing-L <cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org>
Message-ID: <837803.25470.qm [at] web31908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

     I understand your feeling, Racheli. I am "lefty"also and was the lone 
supporter of Kucinich in my cohousing complex. In fact, I appear to have been 
the lone volunteer in his campaign from the entire conservative city of Paso 
Robles.

Racheli Gai <racheli [at] sonoracohousing.com> wrote:  

Great point and I wish I had been more inclusive in my title.

My experience is that most cohousers today are fairly liberal - some
downright radical. My personal belief this is large an early adopter
phenomena and that we have probably already broadened as our numbers
have grown and that we will continue to broaden in many different
dimensions as the concept becomes better known and more accessible.

Craig

Hi Ann and all,
I want to say that I, as a decidedly "lefty" kind of person, felt 
relieved by
Obama's win (because I think is way less likely to cause nuclear 
devastation).
I haven't celebrated, and with the celebratory outbursts of most people 
around me
I've been feeling rather isolated.
I'm saying this to point out that not only people on the "right", 
(conservatives), feel
sometimes isolated in cohousing. And that the idea that we all 
"celebrated" leaves out
people on both sides of the spectrum.

Racheli, Sonora Cohousing, Tucson.

On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 9:51 AM, Ann Zabaldo 
wrote:
> Hello all!
> I've been reading all the posts on how communities celebrated the 
> election
> last night. An historic moment. I share in your joy.
> I also have a question that's been on my mind for a few years ...
> Is there room for conservatives in cohousing? Or are we islands of
> liberal/progressive thought? (Not saying this is "bad" or "wrong." -- 
> just
> curious ...)
>
> The reason I got involved in cohousing is that I immediately saw this 
> social
> structure as one road to peace in the world. (If we can figure out 
> how to
> live together in small communities maybe we can tackle the Middle 
> East.) So
> I'm always looking for mutuality, inclusivity and connection in 
> cohousing.
> I know there ARE some conservative folks in cohousing -- out there 
> somewhere
> -- but I wonder how welcome we make them feel when it looks as if 
> there is
> "A" kind of political leaning?
> For instance ... the question posed in this thread wasn't:
> What did your community do on election night?
> But rather:
> Did your community CELEBRATE last night? (emphasis mine)
> The implication of this question is that clearly cohousing and 
> cohousers are
> Obama supporters. Which is highly likely TRUE ... I'm just wondering 
> where
> "inclusivity" and "diversity" are in this picture?
> Personally, I've always understood cohousing to be non-ideological -- 
> all
> are welcome. Maybe not?
> This is NOT an indictment of all the celebrations that went on last 
> night
> (and may still be going on!) There's LOTS to celebrate! AND if 
> cohousing
> is to reach its full flowering then it must be a possibility for ALL 
> people
> -- not just liberal/progressive people.
> Ok. You can now start throwing bricks and tomatoes at me!
> :-)
>
> Best --
> Ann Zabaldo
> Takoma Village
> Washington, DC
> Principal, The Cohousing Collaborative
> McLean, VA
> PH: 703 663 3911
> FAX 202 291 8594

_________________________________________________________________
Cohousing-L mailing list -- Unsubscribe, archives and other info at: 
http://www.cohousing.org/cohousing-L/ 

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 14:52:32 -0700
From: "Richard L Kohlhaas" <rlkohl [at] earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [C-L]_ Celebrating Obama's victory
To: Sharon Villines <sharon [at] sharonvillines.com>,   Cohousing-L
        <cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org>
Message-ID: <4911B330.21383.DB756BF [at] rlkohl.earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Sharon:  Your email was just a joke. . . . wasn't it?

From:   Sharon Villines <sharon [at] sharonvillines.com>
To:     Cohousing-L <cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org>
Date sent:      Wed, 5 Nov 2008 14:15:07 -0500
Subject:        Re: [C-L]_ Celebrating Obama's victory
Send reply to:  Cohousing-L <cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org>
        <mailto:cohousing-l-request [at] cohousing.org?subject=unsubscribe>
        <mailto:cohousing-l-request [at] cohousing.org?subject=subscribe>

> 
> 
> On Nov 5, 2008, at 1:37 PM, Lyle Scheer wrote:
> 
> > The running joke here at Bear Grass Village in Ashland, Oregon, when  
> > we
> > were still trying to sell our last unit, was that we were holding out
> > for a single elderly gay black conservative/republican male.
> 
> Cohousers are not alone. A friend whose university department was  
> trying to hire an economist had an empty tenure line for two years  
> because the department of young white liberal men had to meet an  
> affirmative action quota. They needed a Black Marxist woman who had  
> lived in China (or other managed economy), who was over 50 (age  
> distribution), in a wheelchair or blind, and preferably a card- 
> carrying Communist.
> 
> Another campus was not allowed to replace an Asian Art History  
> specialist because they couldn't find a black candidate with a  
> completed Ph.D., even when they waived teaching experience. The  
> President of the campus wouldn't believe that there were only two in  
> the world that spoke English, and neither of them was willing to move  
> to a small town in the middle of nowhere. One of them was in a bidding  
> war over salary with Harvard and, I think, Stanford. And the other one  
> was at Yale.
> 
> Sharon
> ----
> Sharon Villines
> Takoma Village Cohousing,Washington DC
> http://www.takomavillage.org 
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Cohousing-L mailing list -- Unsubscribe, archives and other info at: 
> http://www.cohousing.org/cohousing-L/ 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 17:19:33 -0500
From: Sharon Villines <sharon [at] sharonvillines.com>
Subject: Re: [C-L]_ Celebrating Obama's victory
To: rlkohl [at] earthlink.net 
Cc: Cohousing-L <cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org>
Message-ID: <9D4D9F4F-B7BB-454A-BF02-AFAF6631A612 [at] sharonvillines.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

On Nov 5, 2008, at 4:52 PM, Richard L Kohlhaas wrote:

> Sharon:  Your email was just a joke. . . . wasn't it?

No true stories. Although the economists knew they could get all of  
those categories, they were hoping for three. But they couldn't fill  
the position with another person like themselves and that was who was  
applying.

The other story about the historian is absolutely true. I don't know  
what they finally did. The president was new and trying to whip the  
college into shape. Immovable.

This is off topic so we should probably end it here. I was just making  
the point that cohousing isn't the only group having problems with  
diversity.

Sharon
----
Sharon Villines
Takoma Village Cohousing,Washington DC
http://www.takomavillage.org 

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 14:37:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Fred H Olson <fholson [at] cohousing.org>
Subject: Re: [C-L]_ Anonymous post from conservative cohouser?
To: -cohousing-L mailing list <cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org>
Message-ID:
        <Pine.LNX.4.64.0811051429390.22656 [at] farnsworth.tigertech.net>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

The author of the message below requested anonimity.  It was posted by
Fred, the Cohousing-L list manager <fholson [at] cohousing.org>

That post quickly got off topic by arguing their political philosophy. I
guess I asked for that so I am posting it.  Please keep posts somewhat
related to cohousing.  Please refrain from debating the roots of the
economic mess etc here.

I also had another post:

 I am a Libertarian, and I don't care if you identify me on the list as
 such.  I would guess that there are at least a few more Libertarians out
 there in cohousing land.

Fred

--------------------  FORWARDED MESSAGE FOLLOWS --------------------

Dear Liberals in Cohousing,

There are lots of libertarians and near-libertarians in cohousing,
many of them prominent.  You would be greatly surprised.

The current financial crisis was caused, in part, by the Federal
Reserve borrowing money in the name of the American taxpayer, then
giving it to banks, which wasted it on loans to people who were
correctly predicted to be unable to pay them back.  The bailouts are
repeating this exact mistake.  This behavior is unsustainable.

While you are cheering for Obama's win, thinking that the wars will
finally stop and the sick and the poor will get help, people with more
knowledge of history understand that happy days are not ahead.
Collectivism, no matter of the Fascist, Communist, or Socialist
varieties, HURTS people.  Done vigorously, it produces genocide.
You're probably familiar with the German example, but what about the
Chinese and Russian flavors, each of which killed more than Germany?

http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/china2.html 

Hitler was not unique, Germany was not unique, and there were over
twenty genocides in the 20th century under the banner of collectivism.
This is a cold, hard, fact backed by archaeological evidence.  And
now, people who fear a repeat of the Chinese, Russian, or German
experience set in America are writing pieces like this:

http://westernrifleshooters.blogspot.com/2008/11/vanderboegh-resolve.html 

Those ideas are so far from your beliefs about proper human behavior
that you might wonder if the writer has an organic brain injury.  And
yet, about half of those who voted, 56 million people, voted against
Obama.  Why??  Is it possible they might understand some teensy, weeny
portion of political or economic truth that is eluding you?

------------------------------

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End of Cohousing-L Digest, Vol 58, Issue 6
******************************************

Re: Liberal and conservative outlook	<– Date –> <– Thread –>
From: Hans Tilstra (hans.tilstrarmit.edu.au)
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 16:51:08 -0800 (PST)