Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Private House Size Survey

[Beverly Jones Redekop (beverly.jones.redekop]

Sharon,

In your Zillow survey, could you figure out the ratio of number of units to
size of amenities?  We have 33 units supporting a 3900 s.f. common house
(and a creek restoration and a workshop once we clean up our development
woes). There's a fancy new development proposed in the area with a 4600
s.f. clubhouse and pools, but it will be supported by 125 units. We have
118 s.f. of commons per unit while they have 36.

If we can’t be reliable with our monthly work hours, we'll tank, because no
conventional strata would plan a 33 unit to 3900 s.f. amenity ratio unless
it advertised itself as extremely swanky and expensive from the beginning.

Sorry for the tangent, Chad. Our homes are between 995 and 2000 s.f. with
two outliers at 2400 and 2700. We suspect the large homes will feel too big
once we finish our common house, but I have been in my home since 2011 and
we should finish our common house next month (four years later), so I have
been grateful for space while waiting. We have two adults and three kids in
1800 finished + 600 unfinished basement. Definitely big enough for now and
probably too big soon.

Yarrow, BC (farming area one hour east of Vancouver )

On Wed, Oct 14, 2015, 7:53 AM Sharon Villines <sharon [at] sharonvillines.com>
wrote:

>
> On Oct 13, 2015, at 1:46 PM, Chad Perry <pchadperry [at] gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > We are trying to determine the size of our private houses.  In their
> book,
> > Katie and Chuck report that most co-housers learn they don't need as much
> > space in their private house as they initially thought
>
> Like work, things multiply to fill all available space. The more you build
> the more you will need to build.
>
> What I see that people truly need that we don’t have room for is
> equipment, especially for children. We didn't considering how much space
> would be needed for strollers, bicycles, sports equipment, etc. The stuff
> people put in their garages. By eliminating garages, we eliminated storage.
> And dogs. People who have dogs want a place for them to run.
>
> I think the “less personal space because you have more common space” is
> only true in the same sense that it is “cheaper to live in cohousing.” It
> isn’t cheaper but it’s richer. You have more space — guestrooms, workshops,
> playrooms, large kitchens, etc., but you also pay for it.
>
> How much can you afford when the cost of private space is added to the
> cost of common space?
>
> Our building is 51,000 SF including the 4,800 SF of CH. Each unit pays an
> average of 10% more per SF to pay for the SF of the CH.
>
> Our annual budget for common costs is ~$325,000. That is $68 a year for
> each SF of personal space since these costs are apportioned roughly on the
> basis of SF of private unit space. To this add your personal mortgage,
> utilities, insurance, technology, etc.
>
> My monthly HOA fee, my share of common costs, is 46 cents for each SF of
> private space.
>
> I just did an analysis of 11 condos for sale in DC on Zillow that were in
> the same price range as Takoma Village for the same SF. The range of fees
> is from 20 to 82 cents a SF. The higher fees include all utilities
> including HVAC and 24/7 staff. Newer buildings also include party rooms and
> exercise rooms. The listing of amenities may be exaggerated but since they
> are trying to sell the units, they don’t miss anything. Zillow doesn’t
> restrict listings under Condos to actual Condos. You have to click on each
> entry to find out if they have a HOA fee listed to know. A lot of clicks.
> But its a good snapshot and the only place I know to get such data.
>
> The average condo fee per SF in this small sample is 41 cents; the median,
> 42 cents.
>
> In cohousing we usually have more common space, but no services except
> those we provide which any condo with no services does. We even change our
> own lightbulbs in the hallways. We still have high average condo fees. I
> know my good friend Ann Z says we don’t but I see no evidence that we pay
> lower fees.
>
> This is a long way around to giving some basis on which to determine how
> large your units might be. The cost of a larger unit has to be added to the
> common costs.
>
> Our units are market rate, plus we pay higher condo fees and have work
> requirements. This is also why I say if you want to include or be low
> income housing, it has to be designed from the start with that objective.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sharon
> ----
> Sharon Villines
> Takoma Village Cohousing, Washington DC
> http://www.takomavillage.org
>
>
>
>
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