RE: Do cohousers care about "bricks and sticks"?
From: Fred H Olson (fholsoncohousing.org)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 12:24:04 -0700 (MST)
On Sat, 23 Nov 2002, sbraun wrote:

> Hi Rob.
> 
> However, here we disagree, I think. It sounds like your acid test for
> community is a willingness to share cars. My own would be laughter. But
> a red flag goes up for me when an outsider makes a judgment about
> another community, or even makes a general judgment about what community
> should be. There is a hint of superiority about that. 
> 
> I wonder if there aren't people out there for whom what you call "just a
> condo" is really and truly deeply satisfying and life-enriching.

Indeed there are different levels of community that satisfy different
people.  I suspect Rob could have couched his comments in terms like
that did not imply an either community or not.  Or qualified his
statements to something like "the level of community that most cohousing
people I've met want and expect" but that gets cumbersome.

I remember visiting Tinggarden community in Denmark (79 units in 6
clusters - see McCamant and Durrett page 142).  John, a relative of a
distant cousin of mine lives there showed us around.  The level of
community seemed distinctly less than in other communities.  John had
never been to another cohousing community.  I made a comment on rarity of
common meals or whatever was surprized that my comment was taken with a
bit of umbrage.  They are relatively happy with their community.  Maybe if
one is not familiar with higher levels of community or is not inclined
toward such (and certainly most people are not) , then one can be
satisfied with lower levels of interaction with neighbors.  

But it still falls short of what many of us desire.  I think the main
factors in Tinggarden's dynamics are the size and the fact that rental
arrangements are made (as I recall)  by the public agency that owns it and
are open to anyone.  More recent Danish communities have some opportunity
to fill open units with people interested in intentional community before
publicized wider which results in residents more committed to community. 

The one senior cohousing community I visited fwith another cousin also
struck me as minimal in it's level of community.  But clearly the one
household I met liked it.  I managed to keep my foot out of my mouth
there.

Clearly communities from Rob's examples and some I've seen the level
of community varies in US cohousing.  So I guess Rob was speaking of the
ideal he and most of us strive for.

BTW I used to call my efforts to build community in my conventional 
urban Minneapolis neighborhood a retrofit cohousing community effort.
I've largely backed off those goals but I still have a great neighborhood
where I have borrowed cars from several neighbors and more significantly
asked even more neighbors to care for my child in a pinch (when he was
younger - we are looking at high schools for him now...)

Fred

--
Fred H. Olson  Minneapolis,MN 55411   (near north Mpls)
fholson [at] cohousing.org 612-588-9532 (7am-10pm Cent time) 
List manager of Cohousing-L & Nbhd-tc  Ham radio:WB0YQM          
More info:   http://www.mtn.org/~fholson/sig-detail.htm


 
> Sheila
> 
> Project Coordinator
> Champlain Valley Cohousing
> www.champlainvalleycohousing.org
> (802) 425-5030 phone
> (802) 425-5033 fax
> (802) 238-2667 cell
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cohousing-l-admin [at] cohousing.org [mailto:cohousing-l-
> > admin [at] cohousing.org] On Behalf Of Rob Sandelin
> > Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 6:49 PM
> > To: cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org
> > Subject: RE: [C-L]_Do cohousers care about "bricks and sticks"?
> > 
> > I can show you a condo in Bellevue WA that has a brilliant cohousing
> > design,
> > pedestrian core, play area, nice community center that is central and
> easy
> > to look into from almost every unit. It even has a nice kitchen,
> although
> > not industrial grade.  It has very little community. The neighbors are
> > pretty much still strangers, some after 5 years. It is nothing like a
> > cohousing community in terms of relationships. I asked my guide there
> if
> > she
> > felt comfortable asking to borrow a car. She looked at me like I was
> from
> > Mars. There is nothing there but the typical condo.
> > 
> >  So sorry, I do not believe in bricks and sticks having much to do
> with
> > community. Its not the architecture, its the people and their desires
> and
> > intentions that make cohousing what it is, a community by intention.
> > There
> > are hundreds of Intentional communities that are not cohousing,that
> have
> > good relationships and totally isolating architecture. If architecture
> > really was the key why do those places work? Because it is the
> intentions
> > of
> > the people do have those relationships. Take away that intention for
> > relationship from cohousing, and all you have left is a condo. In
> fact, at
> > least one cohousing group, common ground in Aspen, lost its intention
> and
> > became just another condo. There are a couple other cohousing groups
> which
> > have large percentage of the people who live there not involved,
> > apparently
> > uninterested in community. They just want a  safe, cheap place to
> live. It
> > will interesting to see if those cohousing groups also don't just end
> up
> > as
> > condos.
> > 
> > Rob Sandelin
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cohousing-l-admin [at] cohousing.org
> > [mailto:cohousing-l-admin [at] cohousing.org]On Behalf Of Sharon Villines
> > Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 8:36 AM
> > To: cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org
> > Subject: Re: [C-L]_Do cohousers care about "bricks and sticks"?
> > 
> > 
> > On 11/20/02 2:12 PM, "Howard Landman" <howard [at] polyamory.org> wrote:
> > 
> > > I believe that the design of the community can have an immense
> > > impact on the day-to-day functioning of it.  Even something as
> simple as
> > > having the common house in the middle versus on one end can make a
> huge
> > > difference.
> > 
> > The bricks and sticks are important as long as they are related to a
> > deeper
> > value, building economically, socially, and ecologically sustainable
> > communities. Intelligent investment in our personal spaces is a very
> > fundamental way of putting our money (time and thought) where our
> mouth
> > is.
> > Along with our hearts and feet.
> > 
> > The bricks and sticks are one of the unique and defining
> characteristics
> > of
> > cohousing.
> > 
> > Sharon
> > --
> > Sharon Villines
> > Takoma Village Cohousing, Washington DC
> > http://www.takomavillage.org
> > 
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