Cohousing-L Mailing List: RE: Acid test for community

[sbraun (sbraun]

Thanks for the response, Rob. Did the people who live in the community
you described say that they liked it?

Sheila

Project Coordinator
Champlain Valley Cohousing
www.champlainvalleycohousing.org
(802) 425-5030 phone
(802) 425-5033 fax
(802) 238-2667 cell


> -----Original Message-----
> From: cohousing-l-admin [at] cohousing.org [mailto:cohousing-l-
> admin [at] cohousing.org] On Behalf Of Rob Sandelin
> Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 3:48 PM
> To: cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org
> Subject: [C-L]_Acid test for community
> 
> Sheila Braun thought from a post that my acid test for community is  a
> willingness to lend a car. No, it is just one sort of measure of how
well
> you know your neighbors. In pretty much every community I have
visited,
> borrowing things from one another is a normal part of community life.
The
> borrowing a cup of sugar is  a defining sign to me. When people are
> strangers, you go to the store rather than walk across the hall to
borrow
> a
> cup of sugar. This comfort level with interaction is a key base for
> understanding your level of community. If you know your neighbors, you
> have
> a base comfort level in borrowing small things from them.
> 
> A car, is a much bigger thing to borrow, and is a bigger sign of
comfort
> and
> knowledge. Yes, there are people in my own community, some of whom I
have
> known for 12 years, who I would not comfortably loan my car to. But
there
> are many others who can have my keys whenever they need them.
(assuming I
> don't need it). In general, I have a base comfort system that my need
for
> a
> car is supported. I feel that if I ever should need a car or a ride, I
can
> get that fairly easily. And I have several examples over the years of
> living
> here, both giving and receiving, that supports this comfort level. My
> sister, who has lived in the same neighborhood in Seattle for 25
years,
> does not  have this. When she needed a ride last week, she called a
cab.
> 
> In the condo with a social design I was  using for an example, there
were
> dozens of things which told me about the level of relationship of the
> residents. Another example was that there were picnic tables in the
nice
> grassy community commons that most the units looked over. They are
rarely
> ever used? Why? Because they were Too public. The people who lived in
this
> condo wanted their privacy. They were apparently uncomfortable being
out
> in
> the social space. In many places in America, neighborhood social
isolation
> has become an astonishing norm in many suburban places. As cohousers,
we
> are
> some kind of weirdos. We CHOOSE to interact with our neighbors, in
fact,
> we
> want it so much, some of us spend incredible amounts of energy and
time to
> design and build social interaction based neighborhoods from the
ground
> up.
> News teams come and do stories on how we are bucking the trends. It's
> newsworthy that neighborhood social interaction is desired and
> accomplished
> by some people. But the norm is isolation.
> 
> There have been numerous stories over the years on this list, at
cohousing
> gatherings, etc to illustrate how easy cohousers find asking their
> neighbors
> for various levels of support. Sometimes of course the answer to
asking is
> No, but asking is typically not really a huge barrier, especially at
the
> cup
> of sugar level. I would say that the comfort level you have in asking
your
> neighbors for support you need is a an ingredient that defines the
social
> fabric of your community. And of course, the giving of support is
another.
> What you do for each other says a lot about the level of what I would
call
> "community". Community meals are a prime example of this. Yes, there
is a
> self-serving part to community meals. But it is also a large community
> service.
> 
> So the ability to borrow a car is just one way to understand a level
of
> community. And of course, the place I was describing was NOT a
community
> by
> intention. It was just a nicely designed condo and it was a prime
example,
> in my learning, of how little architecture determines community level.
I
> know there are people who have this strong belief system that
architecture
> is a key element of community. Many of them are architects and I have
> argued
> with  them for years. From my experiences, just putting people
together
> does
> not make them a "community". They have to want to be a community, want
to
> have relationships enough to put some energy into it. Yes, you can
create
> a
> nice social design, but if the people who live there don't want to be
> social, then your design will not create the interaction, other than
at a
> very superficial level. I would dare to opine that cohousing has
> aspirations
> to be much more than superficially social. The social design elements
> built
> into cohousing projects work because we want to be social in the first
> place, and so creating designs to enhance social opportunity make it
> easier
> to do what we already strongly desire.
> 
> 
> Rob Sandelin
> Sharingwood
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cohousing-l-admin [at] cohousing.org
> [mailto:cohousing-l-admin [at] cohousing.org]On Behalf Of sbraun
> Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 5:16 AM
> To: cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org
> Subject: RE: [C-L]_Do cohousers care about "bricks and sticks"?
> 
> 
> Hi Rob.
> 
> Thanks for your interesting and enjoyable posts to this list. I really
> enjoy reading them.
> 
> However, here we disagree, I think. It sounds like your acid test for
> community is a willingness to share cars. My own would be laughter.
But
> a red flag goes up for me when an outsider makes a judgment about
> another community, or even makes a general judgment about what
community
> should be. There is a hint of superiority about that.
> 
> I wonder if there aren't people out there for whom what you call "just
a
> condo" is really and truly deeply satisfying and life-enriching, and
for
> whom the kind of community you find fulfilling would seem like a
prison.
> There are many paths to happiness and fulfillment. We cohousers don't
> have a corner on the right way to live.
> 
> Sheila
> 
> Project Coordinator
> Champlain Valley Cohousing
> www.champlainvalleycohousing.org
> (802) 425-5030 phone
> (802) 425-5033 fax
> (802) 238-2667 cell
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cohousing-l-admin [at] cohousing.org [mailto:cohousing-l-
> > admin [at] cohousing.org] On Behalf Of Rob Sandelin
> > Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 6:49 PM
> > To: cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org
> > Subject: RE: [C-L]_Do cohousers care about "bricks and sticks"?
> >
> > I can show you a condo in Bellevue WA that has a brilliant cohousing
> > design,
> > pedestrian core, play area, nice community center that is central
and
> easy
> > to look into from almost every unit. It even has a nice kitchen,
> although
> > not industrial grade.  It has very little community. The neighbors
are
> > pretty much still strangers, some after 5 years. It is nothing like
a
> > cohousing community in terms of relationships. I asked my guide
there
> if
> > she
> > felt comfortable asking to borrow a car. She looked at me like I was
> from
> > Mars. There is nothing there but the typical condo.
> >
> >  So sorry, I do not believe in bricks and sticks having much to do
> with
> > community. Its not the architecture, its the people and their
desires
> and
> > intentions that make cohousing what it is, a community by intention.
> > There
> > are hundreds of Intentional communities that are not cohousing,that
> have
> > good relationships and totally isolating architecture. If
architecture
> > really was the key why do those places work? Because it is the
> intentions
> > of
> > the people do have those relationships. Take away that intention for
> > relationship from cohousing, and all you have left is a condo. In
> fact, at
> > least one cohousing group, common ground in Aspen, lost its
intention
> and
> > became just another condo. There are a couple other cohousing groups
> which
> > have large percentage of the people who live there not involved,
> > apparently
> > uninterested in community. They just want a  safe, cheap place to
> live. It
> > will interesting to see if those cohousing groups also don't just
end
> up
> > as
> > condos.
> >
> > Rob Sandelin
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cohousing-l-admin [at] cohousing.org
> > [mailto:cohousing-l-admin [at] cohousing.org]On Behalf Of Sharon Villines
> > Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 8:36 AM
> > To: cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org
> > Subject: Re: [C-L]_Do cohousers care about "bricks and sticks"?
> >
> >
> > On 11/20/02 2:12 PM, "Howard Landman" <howard [at] polyamory.org> wrote:
> >
> > > I believe that the design of the community can have an immense
> > > impact on the day-to-day functioning of it.  Even something as
> simple as
> > > having the common house in the middle versus on one end can make a
> huge
> > > difference.
> >
> > The bricks and sticks are important as long as they are related to a
> > deeper
> > value, building economically, socially, and ecologically sustainable
> > communities. Intelligent investment in our personal spaces is a very
> > fundamental way of putting our money (time and thought) where our
> mouth
> > is.
> > Along with our hearts and feet.
> >
> > The bricks and sticks are one of the unique and defining
> characteristics
> > of
> > cohousing.
> >
> > Sharon
> > --
> > Sharon Villines
> > Takoma Village Cohousing, Washington DC
> > http://www.takomavillage.org
> >
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