poly vs gay, poly & coho | <– Date –> <– Thread –> |
From: Howard Landman (howard![]() |
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Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:09:15 -0600 (MDT) |
Deb Smyre wrote: > I view polyamory as simply a lifestyle choice, not a congenital trait > or an ethnicity, and I don't believe disapproval of a lifestyle choice > is in the same social category as hating someone for being brown or > gay. That is to say, it's not an individual's choice to be brown or > gay, but it's a choice to be poly. Since I'm poly, and am in fairly violent disagreement with Deb's view expressed above, I thought I should try to express why. I differentiate feelings from actions. Most people can't, generally, controls their feelings. Especially, most people can't control what they like or find beautiful or find sexually attractive. And no amount of arguing will change those either - "De gustibus non disputandum est". But a human being should be expected to have some control over their actions. This is where real choice comes in. If we look at feelings (what Deb calls "being"), neither gays nor polys typically have much choice about *feeling* gay or poly. I certainly had some poly feelings before I was 10 years old, my diary shows strong evidence of my preferences developing in that direction by age 13 or so, and by age 15 or 16 I was verbally expressing my polyness to potential girlfriends (and paying the consequences of doing so). In short, I've been very clear on this aspect of myself since I was a child. Every relationship I've had has been open to one degree or another. My wedding ceremony did not include the words "and forsaking all others". If we look at actions (what Deb calls "doing"), it is clear that both people with gay feelings and people with poly feelings can, many times, suppress those feelings and appear to conform to another lifestyle. I'm not saying that it's good or healthy or honest or desirable to do so, but it can be done. Gays can act straight, polys can act mono. I've chosen not to do so because (1) it felt dishonest and hypocritical to me, (2) I didn't think I'd have much chance of finding appropriate partners if I hid myself under a basket, and (3) many polys today are afraid - perhaps even more afraid than gays used to be - and by standing up and "being out", I make things a bit easier for others. All three of these reasons appear to apply to gays and polys equally. So from both viewpoints, there doesn't seem to be much difference between the state of being/feeling gay and the state of being/feeling poly, in so far as the being vs doing question goes. I utterly fail to see how this makes my being poly a "lifestyle choice" and someone else's being gay as inherent as the color of their skin - especially since I know that some gays don't figure out their preference until their 20's, and that there's a continuum between straight and gay with many, many shades of bi in between. It's also clear, at least in rats, that environmental factors such as overcrowding can cause *substantial* increases in homosexual behavior. This argues rather strongly against complete genetic determinism (though not necessarily against "being" gay in the above sense, which includes more than just genetics). .. There was a strong relationship between the 19th century American communitarian movement and various forms of non-monogamy. A good survey of this can be found in John H. Noyes' "A History of American Socialisms". (Noyes was founder of the Oneida commune, a 200-person group marriage that lasted over 40 years and founded several businesses including the current Oneida flatware company. A "socialism" or "communism" in the mid-1800's meant what we would call a "commune" today; this was before Marx and Engels and their followers twisted the terms to mean fascistic nation-sized dictatorships.) I could talk about this at great length, but that really deserves an epistle of its own. Suffice it to say that many leaders of that movement believed that one couldn't have true community as long as the principle of private property dominated the group, and that monogamous marriage (in which the wife was considered the private property of the husband) was a key piece of the edifice that needed dismantling. There's a deep historical bond between attempts to find alternatives to monogamy and attempts to find alternatives to single-family housing. So it's not unreasonable to expect that cohousing and poly should go together like waffles and syrup. Indeed, the first cohousing discussion group in which I participated was started by a poly family, one of whose members had previously been a member of the Kerista commune (which invented the word "polyfidelity"). And presentations about cohousing have been a semi-regular feature of the annual Loving More conferences. My sense is that poly folks are *much* more likely to be interested in cohousing than members of the general population. Is the converse also true? Maybe there should be a presentation about polyamory at the annual Cohousing conference? Howard A. Landman howard [at] polyamory.org or howardl [at] sitera.com founder, poly email list maintainer, http://www.polyamory.org/~howard/Poly/ website resident of River Rock Cohousing for 2 weeks! "Socialism will never work; it occupies far too many evenings." - Oscar Wilde
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poly vs gay, poly & coho Howard Landman, October 25 1999
- Re: poly vs gay, poly & coho Deb Smyre, October 25 1999
- Re: poly vs gay, poly & coho Howard Landman, October 25 1999
- Re: poly vs gay, poly & coho Deb Smyre, October 25 1999
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