Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Consensus and ideology

[Diane Simpson (coho]

I remembered seeing an old message from Rob Sandelin on this very topic, so
I though I would re-post it.  Someday I'll make a fortune publishing a book
called "The Wit & Wisdom of Rob Sandelin." (Just kidding, Rob!)

--Diane(:^]
  Jamaica Plain Cohousing, Boston Mass.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 95 11:06 CDT
From: Rob Sandelin <robsan [at] microsoft.com>
Reply to: cohousing-l [at] uci.com
To: Multiple recipients of list <cohousing-l [at] uci.com>
Subject: Re: RE: Diversity and values
Mike wrote:

> Rob, seems to me if people
>had to agree at length and in detail about all the subjects you listed, it
>would either be a very small, non-diverse group or it would take forever to
>come to anything like consensus.

The second part of your sentence above, "or it would take forever to
come to anything like consensus" is the core of the problem I have
seen, both in my own group and also what has killed forming groups.
What happens when you get a group of people who want to do
environmentally sensitive development and 3 people who think cheap and
fast is best?  If they don't share the same value, (protecting
environment such as native plants and trees)  consensus takes forever,
or more likely, people get disgusted over the endless yada yada and
leave the group.

One example would be corporal punishment.  If a family joined my
community where the parents beat their kids with sticks, it would cause
a huge uproar and conflict with the other parents. Since we are already
through much of the first level of development, have homes built etc.
we could weather that conflict.  I think in a forming group it would
cause such a conflict that the group might break apart. In a forming
group, your investment is very typically very low until substantial
work is done.  It is really easy to walk away when you have a minimal
investment.   I heard of one group breaking up over gun ownership and I
remember when a local community lost a couple members over that issue.

There are things you can disagree about and still live together, but
people who have major value conflicts might really think twice about
living in community.  I don't think I would join a group where the
parents beat their children with sticks and yet, right down the road is
a family that disciplines their kids by corporal punishment and are
very committed to that parenting technique as part of their religous
values.  I can tolerate their value differences because I don't really
have to deal with them if I don't want to.  In community you are
constantly involved in everyone's life.  Given that level of
interaction with each other, people who have major values conflicts are
in for a potentially unhappy time, and the group is unlikely to be able
to reach consensus over the values issues.

Communication helps ease the conflicts but if someone came to me and
said, Rob, your environmentalism and love and concern for the woods is
really getting in the way of us clearcutting the community forest, it
would not change my values nor change my viewpoint that clearcutting
the community forest is unacceptable.  And, if the group voted to clear
cut the forest, I would have such a HUGE values conflict  that I could
not live in the community anymore and would sell my home.  The group
could spend weeks and weeks hearing about my values and trying to
convince me that the money raised would be the best thing for the
community, etc.  etc.  but the values I hold would not change.  Values
are like that, they come from deep within and usually only change very
slowly over long periods of time.

Tolerance of different opinions or other non-value issues is totally
required to live in community.  Difference in values is easy to ignore
until an issue comes up which touches those values and then people
usually react with strong passions and emotions which can quickly
escalate into major conflicts.  It is really pretty typical to assume
everyone who is working in your group holds the same values, and
sometimes you can get by without ever finding out.  It is very typical
to avoid subjects you know their are conflicts over, such as pets.
 What happens then is peoples frustrations get buried and resurface in
other places.  I visited a local group and heard three people make
comments about their feelings about other members pets, but when I
asked had the group dealt with pets it was clear that was a subject the
group did not want to bring up yet. Further questions pointed out that
pets was an obvious conflict which was being avoided.

The summary: IMHO it is a good idea to identify major values of the
group EARLY in the process and communicate those values clearly so that
people who join later know about and can tolerate or agree with those
values.  This may cause you to have a non-diverse group in some ways
but it will make it much easier to get your community built.

Rob Sandelin
Sharingwood

Becky Schaller wrote:

>I have a question about consensus.  In our community, we've been looking at
>the question of the relationship between holding up a red card because you
>think the proposal goes against the good of the community  and one's own
>personal beliefs.  This has come up in the context of trying to decide what
>kind of climbing eqipment to buy for the community.  Some people thought we
>should purchase the less expensive piece because as a community it was
>better for us to pay less than to pay more.  Others thought we should pay
>more because they thought that by purchasing the  less expensive piece, we
>were supporting a company that was very harmful for the environment.

    @@              DSIMPSON [at] JPCOHOUSING.ORG                  @@
   @@@@       Diane Simpson  http://jpcohousing.org          @@@@
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