Cohousing-L Mailing List: RE: Basic and derived needs

[Rob Sandelin (floriferous]

Hi Becky

I find concepts to be fuzzy, while actions are concrete and measurable,
either the action happened or not. My tendency is to work with actions,
since they can be more easily and readily defined. Thus with work systems, I
steer away from ideas like needs, and simply go with actions/tasks. Take the
recycling bins to the curb vs. recycling. The first is a task, the second is
a concept. I find it very hard to work in large groups with concepts,
because the scope, and definition of the concept often has tremendous
variation.

So when I work with groups on working, I tend to define actions/tasks and
THEN apply a concept matrix to them, often predefining the terms to the
group so we don't debate them for hours. The concept matrix you set up as
needs I would find too much variation in to try myself. I find simpler terms
in a hierarchy seem to be easier, such as very important (must be done or
there are negative consequences which can be identified) Important (must be
done or people will be unhappy) Probably can wait to be done  (not doing
this does not have obvious negative impacts)

With those criteria defined, its often not too  hard to make up a task
matrix.



Rob Sandelin
South Snohomish County at the headwaters of Ricci Creek
Sky Valley Environments  <http://www.nonprofitpages.com/nica/SVE.htm>
Field skills training for student naturalists
Floriferous [at] msn.com


-----Original Message-----
From: cohousing-l-admin [at] cohousing.org
[mailto:cohousing-l-admin [at] cohousing.org]On Behalf Of Becky Schaller
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 10:30 PM
To: cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org
Subject: [C-L]_Basic and derived needs



We are scheduled to begin a formal discussion of  work participation in the
general meeting on Sunday.   It is a rather touchy subject and some of us
are thinking about how we might best approach the topic.  We've had a fair
amount of recent email conversations in addition to a sharing circle and
some informal conversations.   So we're thinking about starting with asking
people to name their needs and concerns.

In Feb. of 2002, Laird Shaub did a weekend workshop with our community.
One of the things I began to learn that weekend was the difference between a
basic need and a derived need.   I don't remember exactly how he defined the
difference, but I do remember the example he gave.  He said, Safety is a
basic need.  Lights is a derived need.   He said that to us because we were
discussing/arguing about whether or not to put lights in the parking lot.
At the time, the difference between basic and derived needs made a lot of
sense to me.

Now we're going to discuss work participation.  At this point, we have one
system for meals and another system for work participation in general.
Basically if you cook or clean up, you earn the right to eat so many common
meals.  For the other work, at this point, we are working on the honor
system.  Some people put in LOTS of work and others put in lots less.   The
difference is enough that some people feel resentful and others feel guilty.

So now, one way we're talking about framing the issue is,  Some people put
in lots of work on maintenance, electrical work, landscaping, preparing for
general meetings, etc., but they don't work in the kitchen.  Everyone
benefits from all the work they do.  But under our system, they're not
supposed to eat the common meals unless they take their turn cooking or
cleaning up.   So the idea is that we try to find another work method that
would allow address this issue.

So if we ask the question, What concerns or needs do you have about changing
this system to better address this problem? I imagine we might get a list of
concerns that would include some of the following:

We want to keep the meal system in tact.

We don't want to embarrass people by publically recording how many hours
each person works each month.

We want to honor the many different kinds of work that people do.

We don't want to put a greater value on some work than other work.  For
example, we don't want to say that pouring cement somewhere counts as work
hours but bringing dinner to a sick neighbor doesn't count.

We want to acknowledge that if we are to continue as a community, some kinds
of work such as the treasurer's job are essential.  Others kinds of work are
more neighborly and perhaps should not be counted.

We want to lessen the amount that people feel resentment because they think
they're not getting enough help with the work load.

We want to lessen the amount that people feel some guilt about not living up
to other people's expectations.

We want people who contribute a lot to the community to feel welcome eating
at common meals even if they didn't do a cooking/clean up shift.

If people are feeling like they're working too much, then they should take
responsibility for their own actions.  No one is making them work so hard.
This is really  not a community issue and I don't want to spend general
meeting time talking about it.


First I want to be clear:  I am not asking for a solution to our problem.
What I'd like to know is,
1.  Are these the kinds of concerns or needs that a facilitator would look
to begin a discussion on this issue?  Or do some of them need to be refined?

2.  Are some of these concerns basic concerns or needs and others derived
concerns or needs?  If so, which are which?  Does it make any difference?

3.  What do you do with a list like this in trying to formulate a proposal?

I appreciate any help which others can provide for me.

Becky Schaller
Sonora Cohousing



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