RE: Design without cohousing expertise
From: Rob Sandelin (floriferousemail.msn.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 19:26:58 -0700 (MST)
A lot of what you do depends on your situation. If you are doing a
multi-million dollar real-estate development, dealing with banks, planning
departments, water districts, lawyers, firemen and all the rest, you will
get a lot of value in having savvy professionals help you through those
mazes. You can learn all that stuff by trial and error, but it will take you
a fairly long time and in most cases end up costing you twice what you
would've paid for professional help.

In fact, in almost all cases, your group would benefit from turning all that
stuff over to some competent persons while you spend your time having fun,
building community and trust amoung yourselves.

 The foundation of a forming group is hope, dreams and trust. Weave those
together well and you have a strong base that will carry through even the
worse storms. I have known a few groups go bust because their foundations
were weak, and when a hard place came, they crumbled and fell apart.

There are a good number of existing groups who spent 5-8 years getting a
project together. I think this is not an attractive option for most people.
However, the "streamlined model" has left some folks with a bad taste, as
they get pushed into decisions without a good feeling about the outcomes.
Too much pressure, not enough humanity is how one person put it. There is a
balance point, between getting it done in a good amount of time and also
holding some honor to the principals of cooperative endeavor.

Being real estate developers is less than fun. More than a few groups have
serious resentments, bad feelings, and unexpressed disappointments and anger
as left overs from their community project. This is usually not what they
were dreaming about when they started. It can be fixed, after the fact, but
it is better to take the time to build the real community, the one made up
of relationships, in the same timeframe as the bricks and sticks part.

Rob Sandelin
Northwest Intentional Communities Association
Building a better society, one neighborhood at a time

> -----Original Message-----
> From: cohousing-l [at] freedom2.mtn.org
> [mailto:cohousing-l [at] freedom2.mtn.org]On Behalf Of Marya S. Tipton
> Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 5:07 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list
> Subject: Re: Design without cohousing expertise
>
>
> We here at Hundredfold Farm have been working with Heartbeat Cities, a
> construction management and consulting firm. Some of you may know
> them from
> the eastern Cohousing conferences. It has been worth all the
> investment! As
> far as design is concerned, we set our goals and priorities as a
> group, and
> they advise us how to best achieve them. Their expertise has
> lended a lot of
> efficiency and taken much of the guesswork out of the whole
> process, giving
> us more time to focus on the spirit of community building. (But
> don't get me
> wrong, we still do A LOT of work!) One person in our group estimates that
> Heartbeat Cities' help has cut our project timeline in half.
> I strongly suggest hiring a constuction manager and financial consultant,
> preferably from the same outfit. Most importantly, someone who
> knows how to
> work with a group. Finances can cause a lot of tension, and it is
> wonderful
> to have someone working with us who knows how to talk money and break it
> into bite-size pieces for us. It also helps to have someone who
> knows how to
> talk to bankers in terms that are familiar to them. (And who dresses like
> them! You should get a load of John's suits!) Having an objective
> "outsider"
> takes some of the heat off the group as well. I couldn't imagine trying to
> decide who can qualify financially and who can't. That would be an awful
> thing!
> Based on our experience, I strongly suggest working with some sort of
> construction management team -- someone who knows the principles of
> cohousing and group process.
>
> Peace,
>
> Marya Tipton
> Hundredfold Farm
> Orrtanna, PA
> A Place to Grow!
> Visit our website at http://users.desupernet.com/rhubarb
>
> ----------
> >From: Larry  Landrum <llandrum [at] usit.net>
> >To: Multiple recipients of list <cohousing-l [at] freedom2.mtn.org>
> >Subject: Re: Design without cohousing expertise
> >Date: Wed, Feb 2, 2000, 4:14 AM
> >
>
> > I would also love to hear these responses, please reply to the
> whole list.
> > we are actively debating this isue right now.
> >
> > At 08:23 AM 2/1/00 -0600, Ann Zabaldo wrote:
> >>I'd love to hear these responses -- please include me in your
> response if
> >>you don't post to the whole list.  This could be a fascinating
> thread!  Ann
> >>Zabaldo
> >>
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>From: "Lydia & Ray Ducharme" <ducharm1 [at] cadvision.com>
> >>To: "Multiple recipients of list" <cohousing-l [at] freedom2.mtn.org>
> >>Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 11:12 PM
> >>Subject: Design without cohousing expertise
> >>
> >>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> We are trying to decide if we should hire cohousing design experts to
> >>assist
> >>> with our design.  We have a very good local architect who has
> his Masters
> >>in
> >>> cohousing.
> >>>
> >>> What we'd like to know is for those groups that did not hire cohousing
> >>> expertise, how do you feel about that decision, in retrospect.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks very much for taking the time to respond...it's much
> >>appreciated!!!!
> >>>
> >>> Lydia
> >>> WholeLife Housing
> >>> Calgary, Canada
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: Raines Cohen <coho-L [at] raines.com>
> >>> To: Multiple recipients of list <cohousing-l [at] freedom2.mtn.org>
> >>> Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2000 11:14 AM
> >>> Subject: Re: Cohousing ,Class distinctions and banks
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > Catherine Harper <tylik [at] eskimo.com> wrote on 1/10/00 9:13 AM:
> >>> >
> >>> > >> Some cohousing communities, such as the one I live in,
> have rental
> >>> > >> spaces, but the rentals exist and are controlled by the
> home owners.
> >>> > >
> >>> > >I was just reading about the...  Danish, I think, community that
> >>> consisted
> >>> > >of half goverment subsidized rental units and half owned
> units.  I keep
> >>> on
> >>> > >hearing about groups in this country that are trying for something
> >>along
> >>> > >those lines, but less about ones that succeed.  Shall I
> assume that the
> >>> > >outcomes are not for the most part encouraging?
> >>> >
> >>> > Note that the list is dominated by groups of all types that
> are trying
> >>to
> >>> > do things, in the early stage...  most groups that are later in the
> >>> > development process are so focussed/overwhelmed/exhausted
> that they tend
> >>> > not to post as much, and those that are moved in (i.e. have
> succeeded)
> >>> > don't care as much, have to deal with daily community life,
> etc. So keep
> >>> > in mind that what you see here is not a fully
> representative sample of
> >>> > what's out there, in progress and done.
> >>> >
> >>> > Old Oakland CoHousing is part of a project (Swan's Market)
> that includes
> >>> > subsidized rentals, but for a variety of legal, financial and
> >>> > complexity-management reasons the rental units are not
> technically part
> >>> > of the CoHousing project. But we were able, despite value
> engineering,
> >>to
> >>> > preserve some elements that encourage interaction and shared space
> >>> > (effectively, a common backyard after hours) in this
> tight-packed urban
> >>> > environment. And we do intend to get to know our neighbors
> well enough
> >>to
> >>> > invite some to join some common meals or perhaps an
> affiliate/associate
> >>> > sort of membership.
> >>> >
> >>> > Raines
> >>> >
> >>> > Raines Cohen <coho-L [at] raines.com> <http://www.swansway.com/>
> >>> > Recovering from Macworld Expo this week.
> >>> >
> >>> >   Member, Old Oakland [CA] Cohousing at Swan's Market
> >>> > Where we've got rates locked and are finalizing
> mortgage-loan details.
> >>> >
> >>> >   and Member, East Bay Cohousing [no site yet]
> <http://www.ebcoho.org/>
> >>> > Which approved a budget without a
> TCN membership - can people help me
> >>> > convince 'em to join?
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>

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