Cohousing-L Mailing List: RE: Children (in cohousing and elsewhere)

[TR Ruddick (truddick]

Couple of points here, one confusing, one error in fact:
> Hi Roger,
> I want to address some of what I think your assumptions are:
> 
> 1-  Noise is bad....
> My point is that noise isn't considered bad everywhere....
> I'd like you and others to consider that while you have a problem with the
> kids making noise,  kids often have a problem with you (and others)
> constantly attempting to control their behavior. They probably won't tell
> you that (they know who has the power), but they resent the interference
> nevertheless.  
> [edit]
> I used to spend a lot of time at public parks (with my kids who didn't go
> to school).  The time we disliked the most was when school buses brought
> over school-kids.  They *were* incredibly loud, often agressive and
> oblivious to other kids and people's needs.

I am having a hard time sorting out when noise is a problem and when it
isn't here.

I believe it's your view that noise is a problem, non-objectively, when
(like other behaviors) it interferes with others' right to engage in their
activities?  For example, if the room is so noisy that no one can converse?

If so, what's to be done?  From what you've written, I'm left with the
notion that I must stay engaged and suffer in silence, giving the
irritating parties the option to reduce me to pointless misery.  Where do I
get to assert my rights, and how?

>  I think this was the result
> of having to sit and "be supervised" most of the day in class, and having
> an overload of steam (and anger) to get rid of.  

Since my wife is on the Board of Education for a major urban school
district, I can comment with some authority: public school children are NOT
commonly "supervised" in any restrictive ways.  School children today will
talk, stand, consume beverages, assault one another, ignore reasonable
commands, and curse at teachers or administrators whenever the mood should
move them.  I would think their brutish behavior in the park was just a
continuation of what they were habituated to at the schools.

In my experience, absolute license for children is as bad as absolute
rigidity, and there are a wider range of authors who would agree with my
viewpoint (I've read John Holt and heard him speak, I don't recall him as
so absolute).  Very young children are not ready for autonomy; when
permitted broad decision-making, they flounder--as they mature, they become
more capable of mature decisions.

Note that the difference in your discourse and mine is that I write "in my
experience" whereas your opinions are presented in universal language--
> All people need autonomy, and this includes children.

That may be your belief, but it's not universal.  I believe that all people
also need stability and a sense of limits--don't they?  Not either-or, but
a balance along the continuum appropriate to each individual.  In fact, for
some people (in particular, those with severe mental disabilities), an
imbalance in the direction of autonomy could be fatal.


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