Cohousing-L Mailing List: Giving-Taking, Childcare, yadda, yadda thread.

[Grace Benjamin (grey_sea]

Okay.  I'll bite.


I lurk the list a lot, and occasionally reply.  If I answered every post
that caught my interest, I'd never leave this glowing screen.  But this
business here about the demands-entitlement-childcare thing: it has just
gotten too juicy to pass up.  I don't know if my extremely tangetial posts
help anyone but I hope so.

Here goes, I'm going to try and answer the origianl post, and flesh out why
I feel this way, then I've just got a few extras I thought of and thought it
would be nice to share.  Now I really run off at the mouth, so skip to the
next post if you're just skimming.

> 
> <<I'm really not asking for advice about whether the community should be
> paying for child care.  What I'm asking for is people's advice or experience
> in being willing to give someone something until they demand that you give>
that same thing to them. >>
> 

First to try and respond to the original bit.  My experience has been that I
like to give.  Regardless.  Even if I don't know that I'm giving.  I live in
Ann Arbor, MI a college town in every sense of the word- so I've often had
my bike stolen.  Now I wasn't pleased to have to figure out a differnt way
to get to work or where ever I was going- not even a little bit- I was
swearing up and down- invented a few new words.  But it was the
inconvenience (sp?) I was upset about, not so much the bike.  Heck- the
first time it was a two-dollar tag sale bike, so I just didn't care about
involuntarily giving it away.  (Now I bring this example up just to make my
point about how *I* feel about giving, not about how anyone else should feel
about being the victim of theft)  But honest to goodness, I think I said
some thing like "!%^#%%!%@$%$*^#$<   &^$!%%!  $$*&&**%!!!! Now how am
supposed to get to work?!?  I guess I'll have to take the car (sigh).  Jeez,
I hope the chain didn't go on that thing- that could be a mean spill..." I
forget the rest, it was years ago.  But for me, in that experience I was
fuming about having an unplanned problem to solve, but in essence was glad
that someone who really needed a bike got one- I mean really, if you're
around stealing 2-dollar tag sale bikes- you're in a pretty bad way, and
need all the help you can get.  I'm glad I helped, albeit involuntarily.
Now this isn't how everyone feels by a long shot or how you should feel or
anything like that- it's just my experience.

One more bit about my experience giving.  This is more recent and topical.
You know all this fund raising in connection to the WTC attacks?  I think it
ridiculous.  Just plain stupid.  What is the money for?  I mean, really what
is it for, how much is needed?  And why aren't the well-established disaster
relief funds- and insurance policies- ready to pony up?  Why on earth has
there been more than 300 million dollars collected when the problems being
faced are problems money can't fix!?!  In this case, I'm just irritated by
all this knee-jerk "Problem?  Let's throw money at!" activity... Not to
mention the fact that if Americans have upwards of 150 million dollars in
spare change kicking around at any given time (Half of that money was
donated by individuals- usually in spare change donations) it is simply
disgraceful, shameful, and nauseating that anyone ever goes to bed hungry or
homeless here.  But I digress.  I think this is a patenetly stupid reason to
wave the flag and shake the bucket- but I just can't pass up an opportunity
to give.  Catholic Relief Services, and the Red Cross, and the United Way
could always use the money- they do great things and I'm delighted to
support them- even if they're asking for (what I feel is) a ridiculous
reason.

As far as advice.  Well, that's another story, and I'm glad you asked :o)
If any of you are in a mainline Christian church, and perhaps in other
religious traditions too- you know what time of year this is at church-
STEWARDSHIP.  You know.  They send out tithe cards, and ask for pledges of
support , and tell you all about what we need the money for and so on.  It's
always been ironic, funny and interesting to me that September, the harvest
season in North America coincides with this semi-liturgical season.  So it
struck me that this thread would crop up now.  ANYway, the last several
weeks have seen many, many, (did I say many?) discussions about giving, and
the spirit in which one should give in my circles.  Yet no one seems to have
mentioned the spirit in which you should ask.  I don't think they forgot it.
I think it's not entirely relevant.  Don't get me wrong, Please, Thank-You,
You're Welcome:  still the magic words.  Nothing new there; it's a given.
But this is the thing:  every one of us- parent and non-parent; old, young,
and in between; and all the other permutations of opposites you can come up
with are entitled to what we need.  We all need things and we should have
them.  Not because of someones' accidental benevolence and generaosity; but
because each one of us matters and should have our needs met on principle.
I think Sheila had terrific insight when she said: "Your summary already
assumes that the community isn't required to pay for childcare. It would
seem to me that's the first issue to settle."  So if I may be so bold as to
pop-psycho-analyse; it seems like the dichotomy of " being willing to give
someone something until they demand that you give that same thing to them"
is a surface issue, the real issue here may be that some are having their
needs met prefrentially and others not at all- I'm just taking a guess.  But
Becky would know better than any of us on the list what those deeper issues
are- my advice would be to flesh out those deeper issues and address those.

Last story.  Then I'll get onto my quick thoughts.  I was telling a good,
dear friend of mine about a major financial crisis I was having.  Major.
She said to me, "how much do you need?"  I told her, it was a large sum of
money, more than $1000.  She said,  "I'll send you a check, how fast do you
need it?"  Now that was one of the finest things that has ever happened to
me, but there's some key things going on here.  First and foremost; she and
I share a relationship- were are good friends and have been through good and
bad together.  Second I called her, looking for help, whatever that might
mean, from moral support, to advice, to financial support, I needed her
help, and I told her so.  Last, how much she gave, and whether she gave it
was her decision.  So what does this mean for Becky's situation?  I'm not
sure:  but if my friend expected me to bow and scrape with gratitude every
time I saw her- it would certainly ruin the act- I said thank-you;
similarly- if I'd insisted that the she somehow owed it to me- she probably
wouldn't have given it.  Even though I felt like I could ask her to help me
in some way- simply beacuse I've invested 15 years into our friendship, I
felt that on some level, I was 'entitled' to some form of assistance from
this long standing relationship- if I hadn't felt that, I wouldn't have
picked up the phone.


Alright now, as quickly as I can, I have other things to do today, and I'm
sure you do too!  Some of my other thoughts:

The notion of core philisophical values has always bothered me about
Co-Housing.  There is a certain, "we all think the same good things, so
we're better" kinda feeling that I keep seeing in Co-Housing.

I'm embarrassed that Molly from Maine got flamed so for expressing her
beliefs.  It was said that this is just friendly debate- but for goodness
sake, I felt flamed, and I didn't even write the post!  Apologizing after
villifing someone's statements (and in turn, that person) doesn't cut it
either- no one here needs to know that you think Molly is wrong and why.  If
you feel you need to apologize for a post at the end of it- don't hit send.

It takes far more resources to raise two chilren in Manhattan (or LA, or San
Francisco, or Chicago, or insert metro area/suburb of metro area here) than
it does to raise eight in Appalachia.  The Appalachian family should not
necessarily be taxed more for having more kids.  Like many things, there is
no simple formula for taxation.

Parents have many needs that are obvious and easy to know how to address.
The needs of non-parents are far less explicit.  It would be valuable to
know more about the general and specific needs of non-parents.

Okay, this is really my last story- my sister was once just in tears about
an adult friend of our family (my sister was five at the time).  When asked
what was wrong, she said "Miss Eileen has no children, children are the
future; Miss Eileen has no future!"  A simplification to be sure- but that
is part of the sweetness in a child's radicalization of things.  This is not
to vitiate any of my previous statements about everybody having needs, and
needing them met on principle.  This is bigger than that.  Right now,
somewhere in the world, someone is raising the nurse that will bathe me when
I'm old and gray.  I'd like that person to get all the help they can get-
for my benefit.  That should be the happiest healthiest, most kind nurse
that ever crosses my doorstep when I get to be an old lady.  So money spent
on keeping children, happy, safe, and educated is not money spent "on other
people's kids" who are going to "cost resources".  It is money invested in
our future, it is an investment in those who will care for us when we're
old.  IMO (which by the way, is never humble) to quibble about care for
children is just a waste of time.  Don't worry about it.  If the mom or dad
asking for help is doing it in a way that offends you- tell them, they need
to know- or else they'll raise their kids to be ungrateful boors too ;o).
But I think we should do our best to keep any kid we know about cared for,
regardless of how their parents ask for the help.  Oh, and btw my sister was
much comforted to know that Miss Eileen was a "Save the Children" sponsor,
and so was a part of raising children safely into the future.

Well, that's all I have until next time.



peace!
Grace

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